@islandmandan Have you auditioned any of the other stages on my list? Curious to how the Herron stacks up to the Pass Labs, Whest, Manley Labs or any of the others that are popular among Audiogoners.
My analog journey - time for a new phono stage or?
With help from members of the forum, several years ago I upgraded the cartridge on my then primary turntable. A year later I purchased a Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+ phono stage after demoing it at my house against a comparably priced Soundsmith unit. Last year I took the plunge and purchased from Upscale Audio a Rega P6 with a Sumiko Songbird low output MC cartridge. I purchased after demoing a Clearaudio Concept and the Rega locally, deciding Upscale was more knowledgeable than that dealer.
My virtual system can be viewed for all the details, but key components are the downstream Ayre Acoustics K-5xe preamplifier, Proceed HPA-2 amplifier and Aerial Acoustics Model 8b speakers.
My issue is that I find that while the new turntable and cartridge definitely improved the detail/clarity of the sound reproduction, both the low and high ends seems to be missing complete extension and the soundstage is rather two dimensional, although instrument and vocalist placement and separation are very good and there is a seemingly clean background with no noticeable noise. I make these judgements compared to my digital front end, listening to the same albums/tracks on both. I don't necessarily expect to match the sonics of my digital gear, as I realize analog can be far more costly. FYI, I listen primarily to classical and jazz, some vintage rock, but typically acoustic music. My wife and I both play musical instruments and we attend live concerts, so we have a good handle on how instruments, bands, orchestras should sound and realize it is a fool's errand to seek to match the live performance.
I've read several threads on this forum and a number of review articles. A better phono stage may be an answer, emphasis on may. I experimented with loading and found the 121 or 150 ohm settings on my current phono stage work best. Below that and I lose high frequency detail. Above that and I end up with unacceptable sibilance on some recordings. FYI, the cartridge manufacturer calls for loading of >100 ohms, so my findings make sense. As a sidebar, I have come to realize how variable the quality of recordings and pressings are. The better TT and cartridge only emphasized this.
So looking for more extension, deeper soundstage and a fuller, more natural sound lead me to a preliminary list of phono stages, with the goal of keeping within a budget of $2,500 or less. (I am agnostic as to solid state vs. tubes and will consider used gear from a good dealer or individual with happy customers.)
Pass XP-15
Whest Two.two or higher end model
PS Audio Stellar Phono
Parasound JC Jr. or JC+
Allnic Audio H-1201
Aesthetix Rhea or Rhea Signature
Rogue Ares or Ares Magnum
Manley Labs Chinook - Upscale Audio's favorite around my budget
The list is long because there are thankfully many seemingly suitable options. I am open to others that would meet my goals and budget. I am hoping to hear from those of you who have auditioned or owned one or more of the above.
A few technical questions:
I have been sensitized to the need to match phono stage output to my pre-amplifier's input. One article I read suggested a rule of thumb that the input impedance of the pre-amp should be at least 10X the output impedance of the source. Is this accurate? FYI, my pre-amp has an input impedance of 20k Ohms on the unbalanced and 40k Ohms on the balanced inputs. So if the rule of thumb were correct, I need a phono stage with an output impedance of 1,000-2,000 Ohms or less.
The pre-amp, amp, my DAC and CD player are all balanced. While the Rega TT dos not have balanced outputs, I noticed that many of the phono stages have them. Is there a benefit to using the balanced outputs from the phono stage e.g. lower noise and greater gain?
Last question is whether my cartridge or cables from phono stage to pre-amp are a potential cause of the limitations I'm hearing. The cables are Transparent Music Link Plus 1.5m. I presume a more costly cartridge, particularly one with a line contact stylus could make a difference.
Where to invest the dollars??? Thanks for reading this long, detailed post.
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Stop reading, go hear some of this gear on your list, IF at all possible w a TT like yours. To be brutally honest, your system strikes me as horse designed by committee…. Even tho i think highly of two important components you already own, me writing about them won’t help you much….. I have heard all but the Allnic on your list, many times in many systems… ALL of them will sing w extension and meat on the bones w careful system matching and approaching it as a whole. I definitely wouldn’t run to more contact area on the stylus unless you've explored getting the most out of your current TT setup…. All cartridge are balanced, i wouldn’t fret the wires coming out of your TT, now i would definitely explore a balanced out phono stage into your Ayre. I didn’t look at your system page but get the Rega on a wall mount or better an HRS or similar isolation base designed for TT. Frankly, while i love and own a Delos….i struggle to see that adding much IF you can’t get it into at least the upper half of your list AND after adding some mass to the headshell…. iF ya end up San Diego way at Bruces, meet up for Java. Best to you on your journey Jim
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The Herron is only about my trird or fourth phono stage. I went digital only after it became available. Around that time I really didn't have much knowledge regarding turntable and cartridge setup. When I decided to get back into it about 12 years ago, I first bought a Project table, which I was not impressed with, then came a VPI Scout, which I liked better. After a few years, I got really tired of tonearm wobble of the VPI, and I was influenced by Art Dudley, and bought a Garrard 401 in England. I serviced the table, and had it powder coated to its black color it has now. I had a plinth made for it, which I subsequently made new Purpleheart front and top pieces for, and finished with twelve coats of high gloss tung oil. That was the hardest part! I then bought a Dynavector 501 arm, rebuilt it, mounted it and it's been going strong for years now. So I can't really tell you much regarding phono stages, although I do love what I have now. As I said earlier, I haven't had many phono stages, but I used and enjoyed my Modwright SWP 9.0 Signature for many years. All the best, Dan |
All of your listed possiblitles are solid. I have demoed the tubed models with the exception of Aesthetix. A earlier, used Zesto would also be a great contender in the price range. This looks to be a good deal too. Whatever you pick it will be ready when you get the P10 level upgrade. Icon Audio UK PS1 MKII MM/MC Tube Phono Pr... For Sale | Audiogon |
@tomic601 If it were easy to audition these phono stages on a similar set up I would have done it. My goal is to settle on two or three and find a way to audition in home on my gear in my listening room. Auditioning at a dealer on different equipment tells one far less. I know I can audition a more costly, new Pass XP-17, the PS Audio Stellar and the Manley Chinook. Suspect I can also audition the Parasound JC3+ and Whest Two.two. Just trying to narrow the field. I share your sense that a cartridge upgrade may come later, if even needed. BTW, the TT is well isolated. You obviously like my Ayre preamp. What’s the other piece you like? Given your suggestion to explore the balanced out approach into the preamp I think that would rule out the tube stages on my list. I would like, however, to audition at least one of them to see if a tube stage provides more meat on the bones while retaining detail and extension at the top and bottom. Do you have a preference among the tube stages on my list? As to designed by committee, it’s more a case of accumulated over time. Thx for the best wishes and the offer of meeting for java if I’m in lovely San Diego. |
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