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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
dsper
663 posts
 
Hi Whitecamaross,

This is an amazing thread. It has taken me about three weeks to work my way through it.

While I do not wish to steal your thread and am not in your league price wise, I was hoping for the benefit of your experience. And anyone else can chime in as well:-)

My room is 18 by 34 with room treatments on the front wall. Due to room logistics, speakers can sit out in the room about 4 feet with 3 feet on one sidewall and and 7 feet on the other side wall. I sit about 9 feet from the speakers, which are about 9 feet apart. Thus roughly half the room length is behind me.  

I worked my way up the Magnepan food chain and then switched to Thiel CS5's. A $10,000 speaker in the day that I bought for $2,600. 

My preamp is a Prima Luna Dialogue Premium and I listen to redbook CD's with a Hegel HD25 DAC using an AudioSpace CD8 with Phillips transport.

I have auditioned in home Krell, Parasound, Hegel, Levinson, and Pass amps among others. I liked a Pass x350.0 the best but it was huge and was a space problem.

My current amp is a Coda CS that sounds remarkably similar to the Pass to my ears. I have been told that Pass dealers do not like Coda because of the close similarity of sound and much tighter profit margins on the Codas. The Thiels dip down to under two ohms and are inefficient but the Coda has no trouble with the bass.

The Coda stays in Class A for the first ten watts. It seems to me that the sound becomes too bright in the treble at high volumes. Maybe because the Coda leaves class A?

Anyway, I like a smooth, nuanced sound with detail and a deep sound stage. My head banging days are over as I seem to have gravitated to acoustic music, jazz, and female vocals.

So...assuming that I keep the Thiels, what is the weakest link in my system and what would be a good improvement and why?

I appreciate any feedback. 

Thank you!

Dsper
 
viber6
2,448 posts
 
WC--I hope you read this is time before you take the Neolith plunge.  You know that I love the electrostatic concept and that properly implemented it is superior (lack of coloration, best transient response, etc) to other driver technologies except possibly plasma.  However, 35 years ago I learned that large electrostatic panels that are also curved are a big compromise.  Back in 1982 I heard the Dayton Wright stat, a huge panel 4 feet square.  It was so colored that it sounded like it mumbled with 25 marshmallows in the mouth.  Most any decent moderate sized dynamic speaker sounded more truthful and less distorted.  My 1st serious speaker was the huge Maggie Tympani 1D, a planar magnetic.  Despite excellent highs, the midrange was bloated like a 500 lb person in the circus.  Not lifelike, to say the least.  I revolted against bigness, and my next speaker was the Rogers LS 3/5A minimonitor, which was very coherent and clear, superb.  I also heard the Stax F83 stats side by side with the F81.  The F83 was a stacked double F81.  Certainly more dynamic than the F81, but the larger panel created time smear so it lost clarity when compared to the smaller F81.  I believe the best speaker from Martin Logan is the reasonably priced CLX, which uses a narrow stat driver for freq over 360 Hz, and then a much larger stat driver down to 56.  Of course, you would want to add a dynamic woofer.  I heard the CLX years ago, and it was excellent.  I haven't heard the Neolith, but I predict that the very large single driver for freq above 400 will create bloat and coloration.  Even if I were a billionaire, I would predict I would prefer the CLX for accuracy.  You should hear both but don't make a blind decision just because you can swing a good deal for the Neo.  Meanwhile, I think your Magico is a superb implementation of SOTA dynamic drivers, with a sensible size so the instruments and singers are lifelike in tone and size.  The Neo is a very compromised implementation of stat technology, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Magico is superior in all the important ways.  Also, some time ago you were concerned that the Neo is too big for your room.   It would have the same drawback as the Vivid Giya.  Probably the finest electrostatic to consider would be models from King Sound, from Hong Kong.  The King is a full range stat, with narrow tweeter panels and larger lower freq panels.  It is superior because the panels are not curved, so there is no roll-off of the highs and the time smearing of curved designs like Martin Logan and Soundlab.  The tweeter panel is about 3 inches wide so there is a reasonable large sweet spot so 2-3 people can enjoy all the information and detailed sound. Read the superb review by Doug Schneider.  Unfortunately, the marketing sucks and dealers have dropped out.  It would be worth a trip to Hong Kong to hear them if you can't find US distributors who can demo the line. A few months ago, a guy in Conn on USAudiomart was giving away the tall King model, which I have heard elsewhere and is superb, for less than $3K.  Maybe there is no company reliable support, but who cares for that little money.  Another option is the Eminent Technology planar magnetic, which is an excellent implementation of that technology with a modestly sized image presentation.  It sounds great, for only $2500 retail.  The midrange was SOTA, and the highs very good.  Doug Schneider considered the Eminent his reference until he found the King Sound.  Eminent is in Florida, and you can try it risk-free for 30 days, direct sale.  And don't forget Wisdom Audio as I have mentioned before. 
viber6
2,448 posts
 
WC--I forgot to add that retail prices for the King are only in the teens, so very little risk.  And light too, unlike the 500 lb Neo.  Ready for the circus, Logan?  The pity is that often successful companies with relatively mediocre products make it due to marketing, whereas truly superior sleepers like King Sound and Eminent Technology that are relatively cheap just fade away. 
mrdecibel
3,063 posts
 
Dsper...I think it best to start your own thread. Enjoy ! MrD.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I appreciate your words viber. Makes a ton of sense. I did own the clx art before for a little bit and it was incredible. Just beautiful to listen to and I’d say I preferred it over the 15a renaissance. As far as the neoliths, yes I have a possible deal aligning and yes I would need to sacrifice the magicos plus a few other pieces.
I spoke to Martin Logan and they said the speakers would work just fine in my room because they don’t interact with side walls.
I was told that yes I won’t be able to hear them at their full capability because they need a bigger room but that even in my room they will blow away anything else I’ve owned simply because it’s a massive panel sending you a large picture of information that you can’t hide from.
I’m not 100% mentally ready yet for them but I would say I’m about 70% there.
One thing that stuck in my head today was something that someone said to me which was: “ it doesn’t matter how many more speakers I bring here. It will take one hell of a speaker to beat the neoliths which will cost substantially much more money”
That comment stuck with me. It kinda gave me the feeling of not looking back after entering something like the neoliths because your ears will be used to that massive sound that will make most other speakers sound small and lethargic in comparison.
So essentially let’s just say I’m only enjoying 70% of the neoliths because of my room. Well even at 70% of their capabilities the neoliths will destroy a boat load of speakers. 
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