If you have not heard it, used it or examined it it person, then all you are doing is posting an uninformed opinion.



Just for the record, Larry, I did not use the word ”should” in reference to the desired location of the pivot and CW to the LP surface. I only said, or intended to say, that those are two theoretical goals of a modern design. I probably should have further qualified my statement with the words “for some”. I agree there are not many tonearms that achieve both goals. I think there is less controversy around the idea that the center of mass of the CW ought to lie in the plane of the LP surface. Decoupling of the CW mass from the pivot is good too. The late Herb Papier, the original designer and maker of the Triplanar and a very dedicated audiophile, told me that he thought the major improvement he made to the design of the TP after it was finalized and in production was to decouple the CW.

@clearthinker wrote:

@optimize If you are getting extra bass from LPs, your funk Houdini (nearly the right name) is probably just adding resonance (NOT subtracting it as you say). You are not getting more of what's in the groove; the resonance is just amplifying it. Take it off, bin it and get back to listening to the music.

OK I started to think where did you get that info and how can you get to that conclusion that I should just "bin it"...


So according to you and your expertise (I regard you as a expert, when you're able to diagnose what my stylus does in the grove and giving advice to throw things in the bin when you know what is god or not.)


Because you reacted to one conclusion i did:

"If you are getting extra bass from LPs"

OK this is not my primary language and I can't paint a nice picture for you that you would like with words.

I do not have that ability to describe nuance like that. As the journalists in the magazines below because it's their job to write a lot of fluffy words that I almost don't understand..


But let us go back to the topic the SAT cf1-09:

the absolute sound 


The same for the piano bass line, which simply appeared to go even deeper than I had experienced before.


On a nifty Storyville LP called The Target the marvelous Danish bassist Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen’s bass came oozing into the room with sumptuous harmonic overtones. Then there was KC and the Sunshine band’s rendition of “That’s the Way (I Like It), on the new Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab’s silver label. The combination of the unprecedented alacrity of the SAT tonearm coupled with sledgehammer bass that came juddering into my room was nothing less than intoxicating. Yeah, baby!

I guess you like that color full text above..


Another test:

In stereophile

the album has stupendous, deep, powerful bass

Another example:

The combo of original SAT and Ortofon MC Century produced among the best reproductions of this 1987 recording I've heard, especially its bass power and control. I swapped in the new SAT LM-09, and played and recorded the track again.

(Above is apparently another SAT model in their range but the objective is to see if a better tonearms may or may not give better/more bass.)


So in your expertise if anyone happened to own this tone arm in question: SAT cf1-09

Owners of SAT cf1-09 should "bin it" in your logic. 

When it apparently have the ability to "getting extra bass".

It is good to know that we have a humble expert here that we can lean on without owning and living with a houdini or SAT cf1-09 I presume. 

This might just be out of reach.

So $58,000 for the arm. $75,000-$100,000 for a turntable. $10,000-$15,000 for a cartridge. A few thousand for cables. $10,000-$20,000 for a pre-preamp. A few thousand more for cables.

And I’m still not ready to play a $30 record.



If you balance a stable balance arm so that it floats horizontally, lift it an inch or two, let go and it will swing up and down until it finds its stable balance point. It will find the same balance point every time. If you do this to a neutral balance arm it will stay exactly where you let go where ever you let go. 

So if a neutral balance arm gets raised by a record warp it never comes down.

Oh, wait, it has a 10 gram cartridge on the end.

And 1-2gm tracking force.

There's no such thing as neutral balance, they all come down.

Which arm do you think tracks warps better? 

How often do you play warped records ?

I thought you had a vacuum Sota - does it not work on warped records ?

I have no problem tracking warped records on any of my arms, including the Naim Aro with its low slung counterweight.