New Magnepan "Concept Speaker" introduced at Audio Connection

Just saw a Youtube clip by the Audiophiliac Steve Guttenberg on this new design by Magnepan. He raved about these speakers on the realism that they created. Anyone else heard these???

     It makes a lot of sense that the true-ribbon and quasi-ribbon dipole plana-magnetic transducers, for the midrange and treble output, are positioned next to each other in the same panel.  This is because soundwaves in these frequency ranges have a very directional radiation pattern that need to be precisely positioned in relation to the listener's ear positions when seated at the designated listening position in the room for optimum midrange, treble and imaging results.  
     Conversely, it makes very little sense for bass transducers, in any form (dipole, open baffle or dynamic), to be positioned in the same panels with or even in close proximity to the panels containing the midrange and treble transducers.  This is mainly due to the fact that bass frequency complete cycle soundwaves are physically much longer than midrange and treble frequency complete cycle soundwaves.  The lower the frequency, the longer its complete cycle soundwave and the higher the frequency, the shorter its complete cycle soundwave.
     This results in a continuum of all audible frequencies having complete cycle soundwave lengths that are directly proportional; from the deepest audible frequency of 20 Hz having a complete cycle soundwave length of about 56 feet  to the highest audible frequency of 20,000 Hz having a complete cycle soundwave length of a fraction of an inch. 
      Greater understanding of how we all perceive sound is gained by the fact that we are unable to localize sounds (determine exactly where the sound is originating from) at frequencies of about 80 Hz or less but increasingly more adept at localizing sounds at frequencies of about 80 Hz and above. 
      Some deep bass soundwaves have actual lengths that exceed the physical room dimensions in many typical domestic listening rooms and humans require at least one complete full cycle bass soundwave to be present in the room before our ears can detect it, send the information to our brains and have the brain create the perception of the corresponding bass tone. The brain also requires the input of multiple complete full cycle bass soundwaves to create the perception of a change in bass pitch.  By contrast, our brains have a relatively easy task of creating midrange and treble tone and pitch perceptions due to their much shorter soundwaves.
     Given the above, my main concern is the bass response performance of the Magnepan "Concept Speaker".  Would I consider its bass performance, utilizing DSP but only 2 bass cabinets of unknown design with 6.5" woofers and seemingly positioned haphazardly, as fast, smooth, powerful, dynamic, effortless and detailed as the Audio Kinesis Swarm/Debra distributed bass array system (DBA), utilizing no DSP but 4 bass cabinets of sealed or ported design with 10" woofers and each sub positioned strategically and sequentially?  
     I think it's only fair that I reserve judgement until I actually listen to it.  I attended a Wendell led demo of the $30K 30.7 speakers at a local high-end shop here in Indy a few months ago and was highly impressed. 
     When I asked him whether he ever considered combining the 30.7 or 3.7i speakers with a AK or custom 4-sub DBA system at a significantly reduced price, however, he seemed to be completely unaware of the scientifically proven and very effective 4-sub DBA concept.  
     This was not very confidence instilling but I decided to buy a pre-owned pair of 3.7i anyway and create my own "concept speakers".  I'm certain that this combination represents a smaller version of most of the 30.7's very impressive attributes at a significantly reduced price of less than $10K, even with both purchased brand new.


Tim, Duke of Audio Kinesis was asked by the owner of a planar loudspeaker if his Swarm or an OB/Dipole woofer system would meld better with the planar loudspeaker. Duke recommended the OB/Dipole. The monopole characteristics of sealed and ported subs is a major factor in making the seamless integration of planars and subs as unsuccessful as so many have found it to be. Magnepan chose to go with an OB/Dipole woofer system in the proposed new model for exactly that reason.

The distributed array bass system addresses the problem of bass/room interaction, but does nothing to address the issue of the difference between monopole and dipole propagation. OB/Dipole woofers eliminate that difference. 

What BDP24 said -- four monopoles are as smooth as two dipoles, but the backwave of a dipole will cancel with the backwave of a monopole, so the crossover will always be somewhat problematic.

Another consideration here is that the 30.7FC is intended to address the needs of the "conflicted couple." The ability to hide the woofers was an important consideration in the design. 
Hello bdp24 and josh358,

     Have you two gentlemen ever listened to a pair of the Magnepan DWM dipole woofer panels? I intentionally described them as woofer panels, as opposed to subwoofer panels, because they only have rated bass output extension down to 40 Hz. I’ve listened to all the latest Magnepan speakers, all 3 top models from the 3.7i on up to the 30.7, combined with a pair of DWM dipole woofer panels and the bass they contribute is very well integrated with all 3 pairs of main speakers but their bass contributions always sounded to me as no deeper or impactful than mid-bass
     Heck, each of my Magnepan 3.7i speakers basically have a large built-in dipole woofer section that are rated to have bass output extension deeper than the DWMs, down to 35 Hz. I run the 3.7i pair full-range and utilize the 4-sub AK Debra DBA system, with all 4 subs powered by the included 1,200 watt class AB amp/control unit and the crossover control set at 40 Hz, to supplement the bass in my system from 20 to 40 Hz.
     From first hand experience using the monopole 4-sub AK Debra system with large 6’x2’ 3-way Magnepan dipole planar-magnetic panel speakers (initially the 2.7QR and now with the 3.7i) for the past 4 years, I can state with certainty that the bass produced by the AK 4-sub DBA system is just as fast, smooth, effortless, natural, detailed and seamlessly integrated with my main panels as the dual DWM bass panels I’ve heard, but with significantly better bass impact, dynamics and extension. It’s the difference between hearing some additional mid-bass emphasis and hearing as well as feeling the bass as experienced when music is heard and felt played live in person.
     I’ve always respected Duke’s knowledge and experience and am aware he has made very positive statements in the past about the general bass quality produced by open baffle, line source and dipole speakers and subs. If he ever made the statement bdp24 has claimed, however, I seriously doubt Duke was referring specifically to comparing the bass performance of a pair of Magnepan dipole DWM panels to the bass performance of his AK Swarm or Debra monopole 4-sub DBA system. The differences in their bass performance quality are just too obvious and stark.
     Jdp24 made the following 2 related statements:
#1: "The monopole characteristics of sealed and ported subs is a major factor in making the seamless integration of planars and subs as unsuccessful as so many have found it to be. Magnepan chose to go with an OB/Dipole woofer system in the proposed new model for exactly that reason.?"

#2: "The distributed array bass system addresses the problem of bass/room interaction, but does nothing to address the issue of the difference between monopole and dipole propagation. OB/Dipole woofers eliminate that difference. "

     Both of these statements are demonstrably false and just serve to acknowledge your obvious lack of knowledge of, and experience with, the 4-monopole sub DBA concept that’s been scientifically proven to be remarkably effective in virtually any room and with any pair of main speakers by 2 separate PHD acoustical scientists, Dr. Earl Geddes and Dr. Floyd Toole,
     You and any thread readers interested in research on the acoustics of attaining exceptionally good in-room bass response in domestic sized rooms can google both of these names and find an abundance of factual information on how and why the 4-sub DBA concept was developed based on these men’s research, along with the related contributions of Duke Lejeune and Todd Welti.


Yup, I’ve heard the DWM panels. They were never offered as a subwoofer, but rather as additional woofers, to help bring up the level of the Magnepan speaker’s bottom end as it dropped off (due to a couple reasons, including dipole cancellation). I’ve always considered them over-priced for the little bass reinforcement they afford.

It was here on an Audiogon post that I read of Duke telling an interested party that he recommended a dipole sub for use with dipole loudspeakers over a distributed bass array. I wouldn’t know how to find it now, but perhaps someone remembers it.

Tim, if you hear no discontinuity between your Maggies and your subs, congratulations, your search has ended successfully! Since there are far more monopole loudspeakers out there than dipoles, there is a huge market for the distributed bass array sub systems now available. We agree that everyone should check them out. When I hear live electronically-created music (as opposed to purely acoustic), one of the main things I am aware of is the weight of the sound. I will never forget the sound Of John Entwistle’s electric bass/amp! The most massive thing I've ever heard, and I've been on a stage with a Hammond B-3 with a Leslie!

Most hi-fi systems sound bass-shy to me: all upper bass, midrange, and highs, lacking the heft, the weight of the live experience. Some of that is of course a result of live SPL, not all of it. Most speakers can’t play the bottom octave (16-32Hz, or 20-40Hz) AT ALL. Everything down there is doubling and distortion. You don’t have to put up with that, people!