New speaker technology vs. Old speaker tech???

06-11-15: Larryi
There are not that many "modern" horn drivers that even come close to comparing with some very old designs, apart from some attempts at exactly replicating those old horn drivers (the Japanese G.I.P. drivers, for example). Those modern, non-replica horn drivers that are really good are also terribly expensive, such as ALE drivers (a set of drivers cost more than a house). What else do folks put up as examples of modern compression/horn drivers that can compete with the best old stuff: Avantgarde?

Some of the older, sought after driver designs are, as you point out, quite (i.e. insanely) expensive, so for most who don't intend to rip their back pockets to shreds cheaper alternatives are called for. Here the modern designs (or simply new, rehashed dittos) seem the better option compared to their older siblings, if nothing else simply by virtue of being new and at least comparable in quality. It's a shame AlNiCo magnets are not more prevalent in newer designs, but price is likely a factor.

Those über-design units of the past are certainly something to strive for, which can be seen with drivers like the B&C DCM50 (inspired I believe, though a "convetional" design, by the RCA 1428 field coil unit) - at an affordable price. Some find it's one of the best midrange compression drivers around. Mr. Weiss of OMA and his Cogent field coil units would be copied/inspired designs as well, but should one be able to buy them I gather they'd be.. expensive.

Modern cross-overs are, if not necessarily by design then largely much better due to the advancement in materials used.

Yes, I agree that given the limited and fixed supply of ancient horn compression drivers they are not a realistic option for most people. It is also unfortunate that the good replicas and good modern alternatives are also quite pricey, with a few exceptions. I wish more companies would join the likes of Avantgarde in incorporating such old ideas into very modern designs. The likes of Cogent, G.I.P. and Goto cannot realistically advance horn popularity because of their super high prices.

I am at least encouraged by the growing use of wide range dynamic drivers in modern form (e.g. Voxative), although prices need to come down for these designs too (Tangband is one of the cheap players in this arena). It would be particularly nice if the best of these designs would trickle downward into the more affordable territory.

That is not to say that I don't enjoy hearing certain ultra modern designs. Modern speakers can easily beat the very old designs in most respects, but not all, and in many areas that really count, I like the old compression drivers (they deliver incredible low-level dynamics, plenty of detail and "texture" without sounding bleached and brittle). Still, I could easily see myself living with the likes of Raidho speakers.

I am pretty much ignorant of new vs. old crossover components. I have not experimented with old stuff. However, I have heard systems where someone went through a lot of trouble and expense to find and employ some very old Western Electric capacitors and inductors in their crossovers and the speakers sound very good. I might be inclined, in the future, to upgrade my crossover, but, I would be more likely to try modern Duelund caps and inductors rather than the really old stuff.

Larryi: Nice explanations there, I believe whatever materials are used, the most important is the way designer implementing proper technology with appropriate materials, combine with rigorous scientific measurements, to yield an extraordinary sound system. Do we have it today? What are those?

Well said, Rtilden, thanks! With no insult intended, those are the sort of folk who would not immediately understand Bombaywalla's quote, which bears repeating:

"We believe there is a place that lives within us all. It is a place of vision and clarity where the rhythm of life moves in harmony with a higher consciousness. The purpose of our music is to take you there."

Do you think there is any way to educate those people? From all my efforts, it seems unlikely. But then again, I am not a natural teacher, so if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears!

Best,
Roy
Green Mountain Audio

Do you think there is any way to educate those people? From all my efforts, it seems unlikely. But then again, I am not a natural teacher, so if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears!

Best,
Roy
Green Mountain Audio

well, it IS hard, I admit as well. Many don't want to listen. There are several members here (i.e. on Audiogon; not in this thread as yet) who have been in total disbelief & I have had (unfortunately) a very negative & mud-slinging exchange with - all started by them, mind you & not by me. Many think that time-coherence is one of many parameters to taken into consideration during the speaker design phase rather than thinking of it as a design paradigm. Agree that time-coherence is not a panacea - it has its own set of issues to solve - but the end result, when engineered correctly, is a heck of a lot better sounding than 99.9% of what else is available in the market.
Some Audiogon members are beginning to believe this once they've experienced time-coherence for themselves but the process is very slow. I'm finding that the person needs to experience time-coherence for him/herself & be convinced that it did something positive for them. Then the willingness to change is much more forthcoming & they are much more willing to listen to its benefits. The audio big marketing machine has done a lot of damage & continues to..... ;-)