newbie 1st post 2 channel reccomendations.


hey guys:
putting together a 2 channel system for the bedroom, wife and kids took over MY downstairs theater and banished me to the bedroom. at first distraught, i was relegated to ht forum surfing and arrived here. since i had been mainly using the theater for listening to music anyway, i eagerly surfed the auidiogon waves all hours of the evening. a few days ago,the warden (my wife) gave me permission ( am i p-whipped or what) to put together a stereo system in the bedroom. i have home theater experience but have never put together 2 channel system and know nothing about tubes but will soon be enlightened
a little info:
room size: 18'x14'3" with 8' ceiling (flat)would prefer speakers on long side of room cannot be more than 2.5' from front wall lot's of room from side walls, bed in middle of room but can be rearranged.
musical preferences: classical all types, jazz, pink floyd, eagles, elton john
budget: 4k not including accessories
system: intergrated amp or seperates, cd or sacd or universal player, monitor speakers with possible later addition of sub.
mostly moderate occasionally loud listening levels

i have access to almost anything since i live relatively close to la and san diego but everything is also 1-2 hours away. therefore, all help in narrowing down options is appreciated. i have set up an audition of proac studio 100 with jolida jd502b integrated amp and jd 100 cd player next week. will possibly audition thiels on monday. also looking at taylo ref monitors and classe', plinius and possibly bryston. may later use this in new theater so may chuck budget and purchase good multi channel amp eg. BAT vk6200 or bryston or something similiar.
all input will be greatly appreciated including equipment and room setup/speaker placement suggestions. basically, tell me anything you want because the kids just got a bunch of dvd's and i'll be here all night.
i know this encompasses alot so just do your best.

aloha keith
Ag insider logo xs@2xatagi
Hi Atagi,

There's very little reason for you to listen to me, as I am a newbie too, and have next to no experience compared with these $$$ loaded hobby-meisters who hang around on the 'gon. But for what it's worth, I think a Naim Nait is just great -- PRAT and intonation are where the music is -- and you can pick a 3 up probly around 600 or so, or a 5 for 1k. I also think that you should pour as much $ as possible into the front end. That's where the music comes from, and no speakers, howver good, will make up for a signal that is missing info, or has distorted info. I have Proac Sig tablette monitors, and they are terific, but they are simply to fast and revealing for my front end (rega planet and rega 2 w/dynavector 10x50), and that's not because these aren't good products for the money. I often wish I had spent less on speakers, to get something a bit more forgiving, and spent more on a CDP -- a Naim CD3.5, or something) and T-table (a Nottingham or well-tempered).

Oh, room dynamics are utterly important and miserable to deal with. You have to be infinitely patient and lucky, or just lucky, to get a good match between your rig and your digs.

For what it's worth, as I said.

RNM
RNM, has giving you the best advice there is.

Front end front end.

Its all about source.

Do yout 2 Channel without thinking of using pieces in HT.

Take a Close look at a Naim Set up.

Had the pleasure of listing to 3 Naim Players Last Sunday.

on Rega 850.00 Speakers

Wow 3 distinct sounds and the better the source the better those speakers sounded.

Then we put a 3k speaker in and the same thing happened, better source better sound.

best CDP with 850.00 sounded better than 3K speaker with cheapest source.

combined cost was same.
Keith:

Natnic and RNM have given you good advice.

They just happen to be dead wrong.

Find speakers that you love. Your auditions of the ProAc and the Thiel speakers should be helpful as well as instructive. ProAc and Thiel both make well regarded speakers. Quandary: they sound different. That means that one of them is "wrong" or both of them are "wrong."

I repeat: find speakers that you love. Keep listening. It would be nice if the speaker you like is high efficiency. No big bucks to shell out for big amps.

This may be a heresy around here.....but: most audiophiles could not pick out a $500 front end from a $5,000 front end in a properly set up double blind situation. (We are talking digital front ends here......analogue involves another transducer!) Almost all humans, audiophiles or not, can hear differences between most speakers.....from the next room, blind, double blind or blind drunk.

Above all----have fun in the quest.
I think it will be easier for you to receive more useful recommendations if you post again after your upcoming audition. Explain what you liked or didn't like about listening to that system. That will give you and those who would make recommendations a better baseline from which to operate.
Cloudgif would be right if the component that made the biggest audible difference were the one that made the biggest difference in musical pleasure in the long run. But it isn't. The fact that you can hear big differences between speakers means they will give you different sounds, not more musicality and more of the music. That comes from the source. Small differences at one level of attention can make huge differences in satisfaction with the experience of listening to a piece of music. And it is just amazing how good even modestly priced, well made speakers can sound with a good source and amplification. One way to put it is that modest but quality speakers can present the subtlties that distinguish good sources, but expensive speakers cannot makew up for what poor sources lack.

By the way, if the fact that 2 pair of speakers sound different means that one or both is wrong, then all speakers are wrong, since they all sound different, and none of them sounds like live music. Right and wrong are not what is important: engaging, satisfying music presentation is what matters.

Cloudg if is of course right that you should get speakers that you love. I didn't suggest you shouldn't care about speakers, but that you should spend more money on source. And I also suspect it is more or less true that, in digital from ends, you reach a point of diminishing returns fairly quickly; the 4k CDP isn't going to sound that much better than the 2K one, if both are good. But he's wrong that the $500 player will not be distinguishable from a good, more expensve one. I auditioned (long ago, now) a Rega planet ($850 at the time) against a Naim CD3 ($2k then) and while I bought the Rega -- which sounded way less jittery and glaring than all the Sonys, Rotels, Cambridge Audios, and Arcams I had heard -- the Naim was vastly better, albeit in subtle ways. Better in tune, better rhythm and timing, more resolution without being harsh. $$ made me buy the Rega, and while it's really nice and all, i wish i had spent the extra. My real cheap ($550 or so TT set up is so much better sounding that I just don't listen to my CDs very much, which is a shame. Of course, If I had spent less on the speakers, which came to about $2k, and which are wonderful, but too revealing for my sources, I could have gotten the NAIM, and i believe I would have been better off.

Of course, its even harder to hear differences in amplifiers than in source (except for how loud they go); but certainly there is a difference in musicality between a good $500 and a good $1500 amplifier.



RNM