OK, I made the leap...


Now that the kid is grown and gone (boo, hoo) I’ve decided it is time to get back into analog. I’ve been into this sport since; hum, ah, 1967, how ever long that is. I’ve had 500-600 albums, (I’m not going to count), that have been in storage since 1989. I know that year since that was the year my ex and I split the sheets and I managed to escape with the vinyl.
Anyway, I went to a used stereo store in Seattle today and purchased a used (old) turntable and a cheap phono pre, and I am like a kid in a candy store. I literally had not even looked at the albums since they were packed and stored years ago, in spite of moving several times. Holy crap, I’ve got a lot of good music. In spite of all the smoke and booze, I really did take good care of these albums. Yahoo. While I’m having a blast listening to my old stuff, it does not sound as good as my digital setup. There just seems to be no bottom end, and kind of a harsh top end. Sounds like an old receiver with tone controls that someone had turned the bass all the way down, and the treble all the way up.
Now for my question; how much do I have to spend on a table/arm/cart/phono pre setup to at least match what hear with my CD player? I do now, especially after listening to, and looking at what I’ve got, want to get back into vinyl, but not just as just a novelty. From what I’ve read here and other places, I should be able to have this sound as good or better that CD’s. All reasonable help/suggestions will be appreciated.
My system is as follows: (I can’t seem to make the virtual system thing work today)
Speakers: Osborn, Grand Monument Reference
Amp: Redgum RGH900
Pre amp: Consonance Reference 1.1
CD player: Sim Audio Moon Eclipse
Table: Sansui SA 4050C
Phono pre: God knows what it is.
Cables: Analysis plus, Harmonic Tech. Some other things I can’t remember.
bnc
.
Welcome to the club. Rushton has some good points and recommendations for you. Definitely go with a used table and either save the 40-50 % or get a much better table.
.
Here is a link to a review from fellow Audiogoner TWL on a good value for a cartridge. You will have to make sure that you match the cartridge and tonearm well.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ranlg&1034089946&openusid&zzTwl&4&5#Twl
.
Spend the most on the table your budget will allow and then buy the best tonearm / cartridge combo. You can upgrade the tonearm and cartridge as you go and come to understand your preferences.
.
Teres (used or new) is also a great value with fabulous sound with great build quality. check out www.teresaudio.com
.
Best of Luck.
.
Rgds, Larry
Rushton, you need to stop doing that! You are making us all look bad. But, I want to second AEW's recommendation for a cleaning machine. I think it is an essential part of your analog budget. I've tried every low-dollar cleaning method known to man, and the VPI 16.5 clearly betters them when used with good fluids. Cleaning is a pain in the ass, but a good machine makes it less of one.

Also, I'd recommend a Teres. You would be starting out well over 2 grand, but IMO, as far as looks and especially perfomance goes, a well set up Teres will spank a Scout any day. I think Rushton is right, a lower end setup is not going to make you happy. You would be looking at 3 grand minimum to get into a 245, and that is with a Rega variant arm and a Denon 103r. The main problem with going the Teres route is that you can't save any money on the table by buying used because, well, nobody lets them go.

You do have a ton of options, and the search for the right table is fun (it was for me, at least). Keep us posted as to how it goes.

Enjoy!
When I got back into audio my first source component was a Sony ES777sacd...a really fine player. Before long I got the bug and bought a Rega P25 here on A'gon. That table along with a Grado low output Reference Sonata cart and Lehman Black Cube cost me less than 2K and blows my cd player away......John
Sounds to me like the VTA is pretty far off on that table you have, but maybe there are other things going on that I don't know about.

Anyway, there are a variety of tables, arms, and cartridges out there, and it can be confusing.

I'd recommend reading some of the analog archives in your spare time to bone up on the particulars of analog, and read some reviews and threads on some of the items you may be considering. Study will take you a long way to making a good decision.

Making correct matching decisions is a big part of getting your analog system right. The stuff has to work well together. You can't just plug any cartridge on any arm and put it on any turntable and expect great results. However, as most analog gear in the higher end market is quite good, you'll have a good chance of getting it pretty close to right if you pay even the least bit of attention to matching.

For a newbie, I think that staying in the medium range of cartridge compliance(15cu) and medium mass arm(~10-11grams) will get you into the ballpark without too much room for error. Stay out of the low compliance stuff until you have enough knowledge and experience to make some educated choices there. Or, if you want to go there, then use some of the information in the archives to find out what cartridges and tonearms are used together commonly and are popular with good comments. That could help. Also, you could do the same things with turntables and arms. Some arms are more suitable for certain turntables than others are. The archives will be good for this too.

Another thing you'll have to deal with is cartridge output vs phono stage gain, to get that matchup right. One way is to get a very flexible phono stage with many gain settings, and just try some of them to see which gain works best with your cartrige in your system. Use the cartridge loading that the manufacturer specifies, or consult the archives.

You'll need some setup tools, and you can buy a mirrored protractor for about $20 and a stylus force scale for about $20 from http://www.turntablebasics.com. These are acceptable quality and inexpensive.

Make sure that your tonearm either has a VTA adjustment, or you can get an "add-on" accessory VTA adjuster. This is important. If you can't get the VTA right, your rig won't sound good. There are so many different tonearms and cartridges on the market, that there can be no "one size fits all" VTA setting for a tonearm. You have to adjust the VTA for the cartridge that you are using, and that's all there is to it. Make sure you can do VTA adjustment with the arm, with either the factory adjustment, or by adding an aftermarket adjuster.

I have a Teres turntable, but there are plenty of other good turntables out there too.

You can post some particular questions on the forum that relate to some decisions you are making, and the crew will give you some guidance. Often there is no consensus on a particular issue, so the final decision is yours.
I want to commend Rushton on the pictures thing. Damn showoff,
y' makin' the rest 'f us look lahk IDjits!

Excellent advice from all those above, particularly the part about spending some quality time in the archives before dropping major cash. I spent three months doing that before choosing my TT, arm and cartridge. As Twl rightly pointed out, component synergy is critical for an analog front end. Much more so than for digital. I've heard some very fine cartridges play pretty badly when mounted on the wrong arm, and vice versa.

I don't think anyone has mentioned that you'll have to decide between Moving Magnet and Moving Coil cartridges. MM's are less expensive, easier to set up and will match nearly any phono stage. Your flea market Sansui probably has one. MC's range from slightly to obscenely more expensive, are often very finicky about setup and require perfect matching to phono stage and/or stepup devices. Guess which type everyone on this thread listens to? It's worth the hassle, but it is a hassle.

Totally agree with AEW and Jphii on the record cleaning machine. Doing vinyl well is neither easy nor cheap. But it can be time-consuming and addicting.

Like many others here I ended up with a Teres and have no regrets at all, but there are fine tables from many manufacturers. I'll throw one possible rig out, just to give you some meat to chew on:

TT: Teres 160 ($2250)
Arm: Expressimo modded Rega RB-250, 11g eff mass ($635)
Cart: there are many good MC's < $1K (budget $750)
Phono: defer to others with more experience (budget $750)
RCM: VPI 16.5 ($500)

That's $4885, $110 less than the list price of your Eclipse. Buy some setup tools and a carbon fiber brush. I guarantee your CDP will soon have more dust on it than your LP's.