''Óriginal parts'', ''identity '' and ''retip'' conundrum

mulveling, I asked you to explain Raul's ''refreshement  or carts'' in

the context of your statement that you understand him ''prefect'' in

contradistinction to nandric. I have not (yet) seen your answer.

However more problematic for you is the fact that you missed

my point. My point was the fact that he dare to speak about others

''level of knowledge'' while his English suggest that he missed

high school education. Knowledge and (level) of education are

connected. You totally missed my point but he can impossible

missed my point about proving that I was wrong. He knows how 

to refer to his previous post and does this very frequently despite

all of his repetitions so this prove should not cause any problem.

For an low educated person is not very smart to talk about others

''level of knowledge''. It is not possible not to admit as members

plebeians as you and Raul but both of you should know their place.

 

UNIVERSAL versus NUMERICAL QUANTIFIER.

European commission without consulting  27 member states

determined that ALL immigrants have right for asylum procedure.

Despite the fact that each country has it own right to determine the

amount of immigrants in its own legislation.

Immigrants from 12 and on age were smarter than the whole commission.

They all knew in advance to  have no chance to get asylum, But

their intention was to reach Europe and than walking from Greece,

Italy and Spain to the North countries with preference  for Germany

and UK. The consequence is that in each EU country there are

much more illegal than legal immigrants. With added difficulty that

their mother countries refuse to accept them back.

What is the relevance  for our forum?

Well the questions like ''which MM cart is best'', ''which phono-pre

is the best''? etc, ''best ever stuff''. 

Those question use UNIVERSAL quantifier while the possible answer

can be given only in terms of NUMERICAL.

Say Raul with his, say, 50 MM carts can only give his opinion about

those 50 carts (numerical) and not about ALL mm cartridges.

The same apply for, say dover with his, say 12 MC carts. 

But by their answer to the mentioned question they newer mention

the numbers involved. This means that they have no idea about

difference between universal and numerical quantifier. But we got

the answers: ADC 26/27 and  Dynavector 17 d among all the carts

ever produced.

 

@nandric what exactly is your problem? Surely you don’t want to let those ‘what is the (absolute) best?’ folks get on your nerves? It’s a way to pass the time, but a futile and pointless (pun intended) discussion.

In case you’re wondering, I’m with you on the potential worth of retippings or refurbishings by others than the manufacturer. Who cares if it isn’t ‘original’ anymore? The sonic result should be the ultimate arbiter. From my own experience with over 40 different MC cartridges, I’m not ashamed to admit that two of my ‘best’ cartridges are ‘Frankenstein’s’ as some like to call them: a Kiseki Lapis Lazuli refurbished by vdHul (vdH tip on boron) and a Krell / Miyabi KC 200 by an ‘unknown’ (Ogura PA tip on boron, presumed not to be original).

So it’s not really a conundrum if you let your ears decide. But in a tumultuous sea of diverting opinions, philosophies and beliefs fighting for your attention (and money), learning to trust one’s own hearing is not at all easy. But ultimately it’s our only chance of audio ‘redemption’. Relax and take care.

edgewear, My problem? I addressed forum problems with self-appointed

''experts'' or ''authorities'' who have no idea what they are talking about.

Is the task of this forum not to provide objective information?

In my introduction of this thread I try to explain which assumptions are

made which are not true. That is ''if premise are not true'' how can

derivation from those premise be true? 

My ''general statement'' or assertion was that only two jewel company

produce styli such that manufacturer as well retipers get they styli

from the self source. JCarr also named only those two. But I also

started the other thread about Replicant in which my own assumption

is questioned. Alas we were not able to discover who produces those

styli as well if those styli are available to all manufacturer and retipers. 

There is old (Roman?) saying ; '' in the land of the blind ,one-eyed is

king''.  You obviously missed my points . I hope you can ''see now''. 

 

 

Dear Nandric, if only it were true that forums like this have the task of providing objective information. It’s all subjective opinions and beliefs, like everywhere else in social media. The folks with real knowledge have mostly left the ‘building’ amidst all the nonsense, a few exceptions notwithstanding. Too many egos making too much noise. Sad but true.

Your assumption that there are only a few jewel companies providing styli is most likely correct. We tend to forget how small our little universe really is, so it’s not a market that could sustain many more competitors. Yet it’s hard to imagine that Ogura and Namiki are the only ones, even with Gyger out of the picture as some have suggested. As you asked elsewhere, who would be making those Replicant 100 or vdHul styli now?

But even this assumption doesn’t tell us very much. For example, the Ogura PA tip comes in different shapes. Apart from the retipped KC 200 I own originals of Mark Levinson MLC-1 and Red Rose Petal (both versions of Miyabi Standard) and Miyabi MCA, all of which supposedly adopted the same Ogura tip. Yet none of these have the exact same shape. I have it on good authority that Ogura used no less than a dozen different shapes, which apparently were all marketed as PA. It seems Takeda san was prone to experimentation in search of the perfect sound and used several of these shapes. So in this case there were several ‘original parts’ and ‘identities’. So what?

As a music listener I don’t really care as long as it sounds good. I’m certainly no expert but I have no reason to believe there is any special magic involved in (re)building a cartridge, only human creativity, experience and craftsmanship. For the most part(s) the sonic result will depend on the designer’s or (re)builder’s level of expertise. If you find such a person, you can pretty much depend that they’ll do a good job in respecting and perhaps even improving the cartridge’s sonic performance. Exchanging notes on the work of these experts is probably more useful than establishing how many sources they can turn to for parts.

So let’s for a moment return to the example of the Kiseki. It’s evident that vdHul did a wonderful job with my sample, but that was done many years ago. When it requires the inevitable retip would I send it to the newly established Kiseki brand for reasons of so called ‘originality’? No way! These new Kiseki’s are most likely not designed and built by the same person who did the old ones and based on the reported quality control issues they would probably ruin it.