Placing Instrument Separation of Large Ensembles in Recordings
I have noticed that my stereo presents solo piano recordings with more realism and impact than any others. And that’s great but I can’t just listen to piano all of the time. I will say that I have mostly zero objections to other chamber music ensemble recordings, regardless of their instrumentation. But when it comes to orchestral recordings, it seems to be all over the place. Some recordings sound like the orchestra has been divided into blocks and fitted together. So that might entail a block consisting of double basses, tympani and bassoons fitted with a block consisting of cellos, French horns and percussion, etc… In this scenario, it’s hard to differentiate instrument separation within those blocks. Some recordings sound like sections of the orchestra are divided from the center and then segmented outwards. Other recordings sound as though microphone placement is done according to their respective sections, first violins, second violins, violas, cellos, double basses, etc… And to me, this makes the most sense however it’s still sometimes difficult to make out what’s what. So is it my equipment, or is it the quality of the microphones and their placement? I will say that I find some orchestral recordings to be very good in this regard, i.e. mostly 128 cycle DSD downloads. While others make me think of sitting on the DC Beltway during rush hour. (No I don’t live in the District of Columbia). To a large degree, my thought is that this is normal and that different recording techniques will render different results. It’s simple to realize that newer recordings will have a technical advantage over older recordings. Though I have heard early stereo recordings (i.e. RCA Living Stereo) that were remastered and they sounded remarkable. Anyway, I’d appreciate input from others on this matter. Thanks!
@onhwy61 +1 Your description re orchestral recording is correct. It is unclear why OP is trying to hear each individual violin whether they are 1st or 2nd violins. One hear these as a group, not as individual instruments.Similarly for cellos and double bass. One can hear solo wind instruments. OP should try chamber music, string quartets, quintets, piano trios, quartets and quintets (Schubert's, "trout") |
@pwerahera Alright, you don’t hear what I hear. But I have to wonder how much ear training you’ve invested in? And whether you grew up attending concert halls to hear large orchestras, vocal recitals, chamber groups? I am around professional musicians on a regular basis. I had family members that were soloists with major orchestras. Telling me that I am naive and that I don’t know what I’m hearing as absurd. |
It’s possible to hear lone double bass players at a concert, and occasionally snatches of individual string players. Usually the strings are playing as a choir; for example all the first violins have the same music; but a really good player will stand out. Robert Chen is one of the Chicago Symphony concertmasters, and from my first balcony seat I can clearly distinguish his tone from the others. The OP is asking how do you get this kind of realism in your system, without it sounding unnatural (spotlighting). It’s one of the most challenging tasks for a system. I think it is much easier to reproduce smaller ensembles, pianos (which are very difficult), and all pop music. I would again suggest adding a musical sub (REL) and DSP at least with digital. I think it’s impossible to get that kind of concert hall realism with analog |
@mahler123 I am using an ISO Regen that has been an asset to the digital front end of my stereo. |
I’ve never understood what the IsoRegen was supposed to do-apparently it is no longer manufactured-but as I understand it it recooks and supposedly cleans up the usb signal. That is not the same as DSP, which analyzes your room and attempts to correct for room related problems. DSP systems come with microphones and a device to emit tones which then get analyzed by software, usually on a computer but potentially on a phone. Changes are then made in digital output, particularly in the LFE. Consider this: No ones listening room can ever approximate a concert hall. DSP attempts to create the illusion that you are in a hall. Like every thing in audio one can debate endlessly how successful it is. I find that when done correctly it gets me one step closer to the real thing
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