Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC with Ortofon 2M Red Cartridge vs.Pro-Ject - Debut Carbon Esprit S

@klimt  So what did you end up doing?

I know this is fairly old and you have probably moved on from the Project, but in case not. The Project Debut Carbon is a solid TT in it's $ range & yes I would recommend the acrylic platter. I have the Debut Carbon Esprit SB "Beatles version" as my 2nd TT. The easiest upgrade for it is just to buy the Ortofon 2M Blue stylus, it uses the same cartridge the red does, and is a nice upgrade. I had done just that, but my 2M Blue stylus recently broke :( not sure how. I order an Audio-Technica VM540ML as a replacement, about the same price as the 2M blue, but reviews much better. More on par with the 2M bronze. 

Sticking with MM also make things much easier with the phono stage. Not sure what you are using for a phono stage, but for that TT a Schiit Mani, possibly with Swagman labs power supply upgrade is very good, and not expensive. 

I hope you are enjoying your vinyl! :)  
Also, I strongly agree with the 60s-80s vinyl sentiment from above. 

@chakster One of your best posts. Me too. Analog vinyl from the 60s to early 80s sounds so much more organic and real.  

Awesome!  Thanks for helping!

Awesomeness!

Thanks again!  You've been very helpful!

I’m going to seriously look into this! I’ll probably go to a high end stereophile store to audition TT’s.

Yes, just try it in the shops if they have demo, touch it, press play/stop, put the needle on the record, feel the tonearm ... You will understand why it was not only a Hi-Fi turntable, but also a choice of professionals (radio stations, clubs etc). And remember that GR is not a cheap dj turntable, for DJs they have new mk7 which is also very good at lower price, the GR and G are for audiophiles. I hope you will like it. 

BTW- what is your opinion of CD/Digital vs. Vinyl?

I know that modern digital rig can be very good, i've heard the best digital in my friend's apartment, the DAC alone was $20k. 

But i'm a vinyl guy, i collect vintage records from the 60s/70s, original pressing. When i checked some remastered high-resolution digital files played by my friend in his system it was too sterile for me compared to original records. He played 50's music for me, i like it better on vinyl. For modern music digital is fine, because new music produced digitally, recorded digitally, mastered digitally ... 

For old music analog is so much better, my favorite music is 100% from analog era, no digital involved, this is pure magic! And that's why i prefer vinyl! But i also like vinyl as media formal with big sleeves, record labels etc. 

In the 90's i was impressed by CD format for a little while, it was new here, CD player was better than my hi-fi vinyl at that time, i also enjoyed booklets in CDs. But since the mid 90's i start buying vinyl and sold all my CDs, upgraded my analog rig with my first Technics in 1995-96. Only vinyl since that day. 

I use digital to discover music or to listen to political talk shows online :)
I do not use digital in my main system.  

Hey chakster!

I’m going to seriously look into this! I’ll probably go to a high end stereophile store to audition TT’s. This will be high on my list. I’m actually willing to spend a little more for something I actually like. (unlike the Pro-ject debut carbon dc)

BTW- what is your opinion of CD/Digital vs. Vinyl?

Good question rp!

@klimt

I recommend it for people with budget limit at $2000, for those who need brand new and complete system. The GR is $1700 and there is nothing new that can beat it at this price (imo).

Personally i prefer vintage Direct Drive turntables like Denon DP80, Luxmam PD444, and my old Technics SP-10mk2. But after more than 25 years of my personal experience with many different Technics i’m pretty sure this is the best option for people who willing to spend less to get more. I don’t like plastic belt drive turntables and for me it’s hard to understand why some people like them.

Matsushita made over 3 000 000 units of SL1200mk2 series long time ago, it was a $500 turntable, an industry standard for professionals. Now they made much better models, but still at moderate price compared to others. Technics is a top quality direct drive today, number one is probably SP10R.

None of those plastic belt drives can pass the time test like Technics. My first Technics still working like new after 25 years of usage, another one (Technics SP10mkII) still perfectly working after 40 years of usage.

Even most popular cutting lathe like Neumann have Technics motor inside, our records cut with Technics motor. I can’t recommend anything better than SL1200GR (or "G" for double price) today for those who need a brand new turntable for reasonable price, except for some killer vintage direct drive (they are cheaper and better).

Even on audiogon almost every Technics user is happy. So why not recommend them instead of those belt drive plastic toys selling for crazy prices? Matsushita is huge and they can sell more at lower price, their price is fair for what anyone can get.

P.S. @klimt You can use Technics SP-20 if you don’t mind vintage direct drive, custom plinth and tonearm is all you need. This is what i put together for a friend.

Good question rp!

Chakster,

May I ask, why do you recommend that table so strongly?  This is a serious question, not a challenge.  

And here's a link to the recommended platter.

https://www.audioadvice.com/pro-ject-acryl-it-platter-upgrade-black.html

Hey chackster!

Thanks for the advice! Unfortunately, the Technics TT is out of my price range.

Any idea which upgrades are avail for my Debut Carbon DC TT?

Is upgrading the platter worth it?  Which cartridges should I be looking into?

Also,  is the  Ground it E Equipment base something I should consider?

https://www.audioadvice.com/pro-ject-ground-it-e-turntable-base.html

Thanks again!

A please keep the recommendations coming!

Also, what is a mc cartridge?

LOL :)

Well, MC cartridge is Moving Coil Cartridge with very low signal output that your MM phono stage simply can’t handle, so you need a Step Up Transformer to use an MC cartridge (or an expensive phono stage with high gain).

MC cartridge is the one you can’t use after your diamond is worn, you will have to return your cartridge back to the factory via distributor to change the diamond or the whole cantilever, because it is fixed to the cartridge and not removable. This is very expensive option, very close to the cost of the whole new cartridge. And an MC owner must do that every 500 hrs (or every 1000 hrs, depends on the stylus life span).

Now taking in count all these ask yourself why do you need an MC cartridge on entry level turntables like yours ?

My advice is to forget about MC cartridge, forget about MC phono stage or Step Up transformer, also forget about re-tipping ...

.. and just keep using MM cartridge, they are all have removable stylus and you can simply buy new stylus when it’s time, you can change the stylus yourself in 10 seconds. There are many MM cartridges that so much better than Hanna MC and many others. Your MM cartridge is not the best, but you can easily find much better MM. Those cartridges can be used with any MM phono stages and does not require an expensive SUT or anything like that which is associated with MC only.

P.S. Return your belt drive turntable for full refund if you can and just buy yourself Technics SL1200GR Direct Drive turntable for $1700 (new with warranty) if you’re looking for serious upgrade. If you need a link it’s here.

Also, what is a  mc cartridge?

TIA

Ok Thanks for Helping rob!

Do you know how the  2M Blue Replacement Stylus compares to the Hana LE?

And is the platter important?  

The cartridge choice is more important than the difference between the two Carbons.

Also wondering if there are significant differences between the Carbon DC and the Espirit.

TIA

Awesome!  I might be able to stretch my budget for that.

Can you provide a link?

The Hana LE mc for $500 is another good choice - and better than an Ortofon mm. 

Just looked it up and it's a bit out of my price range. Any other recommedations?

thanks rober!

Do you have a link?

Also what is the difference between the two and doesanyone have any other suggestions?

Keep the Carbon DC and invest in a mc cartridge like a Hana SL. That would be a bigger improvement!

Please Help!