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Reference DACS: An overall perspective

There has been many threads the last few months regarding the sonic signature of some of the highest regarded reference DACS (Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) here on the GON. I have been very fortunate to audtion many of these wonderful pieces in my home or friend's systems. I wanted to share, in a systematic way, my impressions/opinions with you GON members for a two reasons: 1)That my experiences might be helpful to fellow members interested in audtioning these DACS. 2)Starting an interesting discussion regarding the different "sonic flavors" of these reference digital front ends. I totally agree with the statement, "if you have not heard it you don't have an opinion". Therefore, I have no comments regarding DACS from Weiss,Goldmund,Audio Aero and Burmester because I have never had the pleasure of audtioning them. I would love to hear from members who have and share their experiences with us. My overall impression is that these DACS(Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) can be grouped into two molar categories regarding their overall sonic signature. By the way, all of them can throw a large/deep soundstage with excellent layering in the acoustic space with "air" around individual players on that stage. However, than they start to part company into two major categories. Category #1) These DACS "flavors" revolve around pristine clarity, fine sharp details,speed,very extended top/bottom frequencies,and great PRAT. These DACS never sound "etched" or "in your face" but are more "upfront" then "layed back" in their presentation. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Dcs,Ensemble,Meitner. My personnal favorite in this group is the Ensemble, which I owned for two years. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Wilson,Thiel,Dynaudio, Focal/JM Labs. Category #2) These DACS "flavors" revolve around a "musical/organic" sense, natural timbres,and an easy flowing liquidity. Their "less forward" presentation my give the impression of less detail, but I think in this case its an illusion fostered by their more relaxed/organic manner. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts. I did find that the tube DACS did not have the top/bottom frequency extenstion and PRAT of the SS DACS in this bracket. For me, the Accustic Arts DAC1-MK3 gave me the best of both categories, therefore it is now the resident DAC in my system. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Magnepan,Von Schweikert,Sonus Faber. Well, it's all just my opinion regarding these digital pieces, but I hope this post was at least informative/somewhat interesting and would lend itself to other GON members sharing their impressions, not about what DAC is the "BEST" in the world, but your personnal taste and synergy with your system.
teajay
teajay OP
1,715 posts
 
Hi Dev, yes I know that you are waiting for your Vac monoblocks, congrats! Sounds like you finally found what you were looking for in these monoblocks.

Dear friend, this time we will just have to agree to disagree. I have auditioned to very highly regarded analog front ends, each one was around 15k to 20K retail, and I'm sorry I found no magic in their sonics compared to my digital front end. For a matter of fact besides surface noise off the records I found them somewhat lacking in microdetails and did not find them to have more liquidity or ease then what I'm use to in my digital front end. I listened to the same recordings, mainly Blue Note 50's or early 60's, my records that were clean and pristine compared with my redbook cds and liked the cd as much as the records. So, no great magic for me, however maybe with the right analog rig, just the right recordings nice and clean and everything working perfactly that magic still might be in those grooves, however, call me lazy, I like just putting in the CD and listening to music. I have not found the hassles of playing records to be worth it based on sonics alone. I still have over 400 albums that I keep giving away to good homes of friends with turntables who will use them and enjoy them.
rockitman's avatar
rockitman
417 posts
 
One thing I know for sure Dev....Chasing the digital dragon never quite satisfies. Analog ? It's like coming home to roost. Home sweet home. Cheers !
fcrowder
191 posts
 
I had a chance to hear a comparison of the new Esoteric K-01, an EMM Labs XDS1 and an Esoteric P03/D03/G0 over the weekend at a dealer's home. The K01 had been played about 360 hours, so still had a ways to go with respect to break in. I would note that the availability of a large number of filter choices is both a curse and a boon. I was somewhat unsure what value some of the choices offerred such as the native 44.1 Redbook which was clearly inferior to other combinations. While I would caution that comparing three different CD playing devices over a three hour period is not ideal and that I hope to do further listening as the K01 has more hours on it, my initial impression is that the K01 is quite good on Redbook, better in some ways than either the otyher Esoteric gear or the EMM Labs; however, the EMM Labs is at this point clearly superior on SACD, but not night and day. The K01 seems to retain much of the best from earlier Esoteric players, low noise, low distortion, great detail and excellent dynamics but to have a richer tonal palette. Again, these are just first thoughts, but I highly suggest auditioning a fully broken in K01. Note that straight from the box, its sound is less than optimal. IT ALSO NEEDS TO NE WARMED UP AND IS SENSITIVE TO POWER CORDS.
dev's avatar
dev
832 posts
 

Hi Teajay,

I agree it most defiantly is oaky to agree to disagree but that being said from reading your responce you just haven't heard a proper vinyl set-up just like when you hear different digital set-ups.

You are invited any time to come for a listen. Living with my RED-BOOK as long as I did and directly comparing the best cd recordings I have along with comparing duplicate recording that I also have on vinyl I'm sory but there were really no comparisons sonic wise in the end, vinyl prevailing.

The set-ups you referred to being $15-$20k, I'm not sugesting money means anything but you know your RED-BOOK pces are far from being cheap, just alone the 1621a list for over $26K. My REED arm and MSL cart fall into that category alone with what you heard cost wise, when I owned the AC3 which lists for $18K it surpased my red-book set-up.

When listening to my red-book cd collection I find that there are more lessor quality recordings than top notch amazing sounding ones, now compare that to my present LP collection and it's not even close, I currently have very few records that I would say are not amazing sounding.

My set-up, the way I have it is just set and forget it, no fussing around unless I'm doing comparisions and that's how I like it. I'm not a fanatic wanting to fuss with this and that, I just clean my records once from receipt and then all I do is one quick swipe using my brush prior to actually playing, pretty simple and compares to removing and replacing the puck in the 1621.

Surface noise, yes I do have some of this on some recordings but that greatly depends on the actual recording and usually if it's there only present in between tracks so really not a biggy and once the music comes on such is gone and oh my it's just time to listen to some great tunes. Magic, all I can say is WOW! and more WOW! with my set-up but in the end as we both know it's all personal.

You have over 400 records you just keep giving away, damn I'll take all of them off your hands, sure would assist in my collection.

I have just started so I'm sure you likely have some awesome pces, let me know how we can work this out. PM me or give me a call.

It's all about the music in the end so as long as you are able to listen enjoy no matter what your poison may be that's all that really matters.

muralman1
1,527 posts
 
Teajay, while this topic has run it's course, it helped me arrive at a sound that surpasses my wildest expectations. I have heard a wide number of Audio Note systems. My own system's DACs have been Audio Note for years.

I did not care for the Audio Note transports. I heard spacial distortion that displeased me. I used PSA Lambda successfully for a couple years. The combination was very good. It was not the last word on detail, or frequency extension, as, you pointed out.

For my DAC, I stuck with my Audio Note while adding cutting edge diodes. these diodes pass on the full array of digital information, hidden by the usual AN diodes. I can't remember if I read it here or somewhere else, anyway, I had the pleasure of finding the 47 Lab site. Just reading their philosophy, I became a devoted advocate for their transports. The 47 lab DAC, in conjunction with their transport, was lovely, true toned, an is the ultimate in musicality IMO.

On the other hand, the 47 Lab transport used with my Audio Note * it became a musical event producing a sound I had not dreamed possible. It gives full expression including PRAT, ultimate extension, decay to black, alarming dynamics, and a spritely micro-dynamic play that is most satisfying in piano solos.

bugles squeal, violins sweetly sear, cymbals crash, clang, and ring, Giant drum skins hit have that soft whack, a quick ripple crack, then a deep chested boom.

Singers are presented forward and are so lovingly living. The tiniest inflection can be heard, but never does detail trump realism. The highs are exquisitely fine. Bass is fully expressed, remaining a musical part of a musical whole in harmony.

It goes one important step further, though. The music as a wonderful flow. Harmonies, positional seating, roll off in a way only the best Vinyl systems can approach.

My system eschews all oversampling, upsampling, and filters. They all sound contrived on my system. I have not heard some of the highest brands you love. I would like to give them a try, though I hold little hope for them.

I have found every components must be designed to do the least amount of harm to the music signal. Every time the signal is switched, filtered, made to jump hoops, the more the signal looses bits and pieces.

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