Relaxed/Analog sounding DAC for under $10k (used or new)


Hi all. I'm currently using an Allnic D5000 DHT DAC which I got to replace a denafrips Pontus II not too long ago. While I do enjoy this dac, it can sound a bit forward in higher frequencies at times and can get a bit fatiguing. The 3A5 tubes are a bit finicky and don't last especially long either. It seems to sound best with coax input and with native DSD files, but my streamer only has USB output, and I exclusively stream via Qobuz with no DSD albums, so I'm not sure it's the best long term match from a synergy standpoint for me. I get the feeling that it was designed around being used primarily with a CD transport, which is not something I am interested in ever adding to my system.

My primary listening setup is centered around analog vinyl playback, so that tends to be my point of reference. I prefer laid back and musical sound versus striving for absolute detail retrieval that can sometimes come off a bit too clinical or harsh to me.

Going through various threads, some things stick out to me - T+A D200, SW1X, etc. I've also heard some Lampizator DACs that I liked (though mostly their very high end models that are outside my budget). I know typically people recommend R2R for a more 'analog' experience, but I also know that that is not the end-all-be-all with DACs, and implementation and intention matters a fair amount more. There are some DAC manufacturers that design their DACs around being used with CDs and don't care for streaming, so their performance is not optimized for use with streaming, etc.

Please do not turn the thread into a debate about the merits of R2R vs D-S. Not really relevant to me and I am mainly looking to see what ideas people toss at me.

Anyway, as a TL;DR, looking for a DAC that satisfies these points:

1. Leaning more musical/analog sounding, with a focus on laid back sound that is non-fatiguing;
2. wide soundstage and fantastic imaging;
3. Optimized for PCM streaming audio + USB input;
4. Ideally under $10k (new or used);
5. Black chassis option

Thanks!

128x128mmcgill829

There are many reasons why you can be experiencing fatigue. The DAC to amp/preamp matching where there’s sn impedance mismatch, interconnects from dac to pre or amp (I’ve experienced fatigue with few cables until I found what matched perfectly), DAC itself can emphasize presence region and annoy you, room acoustics, etc.

Your DAC output impedance is 150 ohms which means the input impedance of your preamp or integrated should be at least 10x that and preferably more. If the amp has low input impedance the balance shifts towards higher frequencies as the bass is reduced. Keep this in mind now and in the future when you select a new DAC. Solid state DACs will typically have lower output impedance and match better with most equipment. Just something to think about

Don’t get too hung up on DACs that sound like vinyl records. They don’t exist. Find a DAC that is better and more evenly balanced top to bottom.
In your price range you can find a used MSB Discrete if you’re patient. Or try Bricasti with severa filter options to relax the presentation a bit.

What are your cables? Brand and model?

Gold Note DS1000 Evo perhaps?  Tilts a little towards warm I believe.  I have the DS10 and prefer it in head to head with DCS Bartok.  More full bodied to my ears.  Ds10 and DS1000 use same chip, so should be same, only more. 

@steakster - thanks, I am fairly confident it is the DAC that is bordering on the slightly bright side of things. I've spoken to another owner of the DAC (there aren't many of us!) who experienced some of the same brightness. Don't get me wrong - it's not incredibly bright to where I'm desperate to replace - but it's on the bright side of neutral for me. If I use oversampling at all, it makes it exponentially worse. It pushes mids and highs to a point where sure they may be very detailed and open sounding, but it's quite unbalanced and ends up making vocals very sibilant where they may not have been before. Of course, when criticizing gear, we're often focusing on magnifying little negatives and they can come across in writing as a lot more extreme than they actually are, so wanted to clarify a bit that it isn't anything extreme, just on the brighter side of neutral in my system and I'd prefer on the warmer side of neutral.

I am considering a future upgrade to an Innuos Pulsar streamer from my Zen MK3, but it's not high on the priority list right now. I do want to stick with Innuos though as I really like their Sense program. I already have a LAN filter in use that I've had for some time, and have tested with and without and it has no impact on any of these perceived small sound issues.
 

@audphile1 - The input impedence of my linestage is 50 kOhm, so I'd assume that wouldn't be the issue. I did recently swap all of my interconnect cables to Triode Wire Lab spirits, and those made a nice improvement in my overall sound (in both digital and analog chains).

I don't experience this same slight imbalance on my analog playback, so that narrows it down to the streamer and the dac. The streamer did not have this issue with my previous dac, but introducing the new dac and living with it a while is when I started to notice it, especially with longer listening sessions (the first month or so I was very busy with work so was limited to an hour or two a day at most).

I really, honestly, just think that the DAC isn't the best synergistic match with the rest of my system, not that the DAC is 'bad' or anything. That's just how it is sometimes and that's totally ok. I don't want to try to force a square block in a round hole, so to speak, when the solution might just be to replace the unit with something that works better with the rest of my gear. Of course, I will need to demo options in my system, and that is absolutely a must for me before committing to my next DAC. Won't know til I try!

And yeah. I suppose the whole 'wanting digital to sound analog' chase is silly, but *for me* that really just distills down to looking for slightly warmer, natural, non-fatiguing sound. A lot of high end 'hifi' these days tends to overemphasize detail retrieval over all else and it's often very fatiguing for me - especially since I'm often listening my entire work day.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far (either for specific gear or possible other avenues to look into)! I appreciate all the feedback.

I have developed over years a severe aversion/sensibility for all exacerbating high frequencies artefact. I had to change my integrated amplifier 3 times, my DAC 3 times, my speakers 3 times, my music server 2 times along with various cable changes. The worse error I made was to hang-on to my Spendor D7 not realizing they were the biggest source of high frequencies listening fatigue.

In the end, after all these changes (integrated amp Accuphase E-370, music server Innuos Zenith MK3, speakers Pierre-Etienne Léon Kantor S3.2), I noticed that my PS Audio Directstream DAC MK1 (even after the output transformer upgrade) was giving me some listening fatigue, but I could have stopped there. But then, my old Micromega CDF1 CD player gave out - I was only using it very sparingly with most of my listening being done through the DSD MK1 DAC. After some shopping around for a new CD player, I was intrigue by the Marantz SACD 30n: it was both a CD player and a DAC accepting USB input, and was doing a DSD conversion (which I found much smoother than PCM when properly implemented) using the Marantz Musical Mastering (MMM) digital-to-analog converter as a lesser version than the one available on their Reference SACD and CD Player SA-10. To this day, I have not found one single PCM implementation that did not cause me listening fatigue (be it DAC chips, R2R, Chord pulse-array). To my surprise, after some serious listening, I found that the Marantz SACD 30n provided me with more details, more natural tones, and warmer/richer medium frequencies than the DSD MK1 DAC, so much so that I sold the DSD MK1 DAC and replaced it permanently with the Marantz 30n.

It should be mentioned that I listen almost exclusively to Sacred Choral chants and listening fatigue can come very very quickly if the high frequencies (sibilance) are too present. I am now retired, bought my Marantz 30n back in March 2022 (Capitalsound.ca for CAD$3,800) and do not plan to upgrade my sound system any time soon.