SACD- my intial thoughts....

Bluefin-I am not dismissing anybody's findings-I truly accept those who find SACD to be noticeably superior to CD.
They have no reason to say otherwise.
Clearly there are reasons why it should be better on a technical basis.
I can accept that my $750(list price) DVD/SACD player must be limited in comparison to other players,likewise my friends all-format Pioneer must too be limited,maybe why his comparisons with CD do not show the differences they should.
His sits in an approx $10K system and mine in a $6k system.
My point is merely this,in Audiogon terms our systems are pretty small fry but in the "real" world our systems are way above average-my fears lie with the lower and casual audio fan who imho has a likely chance of dismissing SACD as no better than CD.
Also I am struck by the amount of SACD players available on Audiogon and some learned 'goners who do not hear "big" differences between SACD/CD.
I am at the very early stages of assessing SACD and the format clearly is in it's infant stages hopefully over time the differences become clearer to me.
Having discussed this offline too I am told (rightly or wrongly) that the 900 is a moderate SACD machine,close to the Philips 1000 and a bit behind the 9000es.

Ben,

Yes! thanks for reading and understanding my post.
TWL would be happy to hear people like LP (I need your suggestion in the end).
I believe some new audiophiles can gain something if I explain it clear enough.

One suggestion for other audiophile's listening.
The output of a CD or SACD are not exactly the same.
Some from recorinding and coding, and some from output CKT design. If your CD player output has a slightly higher voltage or output impedance is different, by setting pre-amp at the same position, that CD player would sound louder than other CD or SACD players. Some may take it as more dynamic, but actually it is simply louder not more dynamic.
Some modify CD player's output (higher) to use a passive pre-amp, that's for different purpose.

We can always turn up the volume to sqeeze your power amp for extra dB's. However, a dynamic sound in SACD can tell the difference of 50 and 50.1 dB (just for example). But a CD may only give your the difference 50 and 50.2 (e.g. 50.1 is compressed to either 50 or 50.2 dB).

TWL, I have an old Oracle with Grace arm. I used BPS or Grado Platinum and it sound very good with ARC PH3. Since my PH3 can certainly take higher output than that, you think what should be my next step up? I am not rich, so please give some suggestions, which I can save money to finish. Can Grace handle MC well (which?) or I should save for years to get another arm or table?

Thanks!

My wife and I first heard a SACD while auditioning some Vandersteen 2ce at a local high-end, single owner shop back in 2000. It was an intimate setting as there was only one other person in the shop and the phone wasn't ringing! He had some CD's for us to browse while he hooked up the speakers. It was all to be hooked up to a McCormack amp and preamp (model?) We chose Natalie Merchant's Tiger Lilly - the NON-SACD version - as I was very familiar with the recording on my home system. The CD player he used was the Sony SCD-1. Natalie sounded fantastic! The soundstage at the end of "Carnival" sounded like I was standing on a sidewalk in Central Park - very impressive. I wasn't sure if this was the player, speaker, associated equipment or all of the above. I asked a couple of questions about the player and he said it was a Sony - their new "SACD" player. I asked if what we just heard was an SACD and he said no although he had an SACD sampler disc he could bring out. For grins he replaced the Sony with Parasound's flagship CD player at the time (don't rememer the model but was selling for around $1900). I currently own a Parasound DAC and have owned other Parasound equipment in the past. Parasound is capable of making excellent equipment IMO. Anyway, I auditioned "Carnival" one more time over the same system only with the Parasound in place of the Sony. There was something missing with the Parasound, a realism and simbilance that the Sony did very well. The Parasound, while sounding very good, did not convey the realism of the Sony. The soundstage was lush with the Sony and very layered with a clarity that was remarkable. This is just comparing the redbook source! Needless to say I was truly able to see the impact of the machine on the whole system. I was really taken with the Sony while the sound with the Parasound in the chain sounded close to my current home system. When John brought out the SACD sample CD, I was ready to hear it - even my wife was excited! He played only one track from it (I don't remember the title) but there was a drummer right in front of me (sonically) using a brush on the cymbals. It sounded scary REAL. The prices I have seen these sell for recently (used) are right in line with what the Parasound was retailing for 2 years ago! I wish I had the $$$ for one, even at today's prices! :-( BTW: My wife loved every second of our visit - a testament to the equipment and the kind of shop and owner where this can be done! Tony

I just heard "kind of blue" on SACD , then redbook on the musical fidelity trivista. I have been very curioius for a long time... The SACD sounded more "detailed" and multilayered, but also more fractured, and less like music, kind of like a recording where you can hear the splices. I was missing the flow and organicism of the performance. When we put the redbook in, it was such a relief. It just sounded more like music.

Hi Ben

I share your experience 100%. I have not compared the CD layer with the SACD layer, instead I have used a red book CD and compared to the equivalent SACD. I think have a decent reproduction chain with Adcom 750 pre Mark Levinson PA (200+200) and Martin Logan ReQuest(6'tall). Kimber is my standard cable. The front end is the recently released Philips SA963 which has 192Khz oversampling on CD. My previous CD player was the Meridian 500/566 combo which now plays paper weight. The most noticeable difference between the two standard is more musicality, will it blow off your socks?
No, do not think so. My experience is sattle details here and there and a bit expanded frequency range. As said the improvement I enjoyed most is the musicality and lack of edgy and too sharp not natural reproduction that some time effects CD. But is it the CD standard or the mastering and recording??? Why some CDs sound wonderful and other so harsh and anything but musical?

Bottomm line is, I do not think the general population will spend $30,000 to bring out the small enhancement of the SACD standard.