SAEC Making Tonearms Again!

@invictus005  

I am pretty new around the forums, but been a member a long time. I also know that the Technics threads on many sites can get heated, as well as the whole BD/DD/Idler dust up. So I don't know if this is just  lure dragging exercise, but I will give it a bite. 

I have owned many nice belt drives over the years, VPI, Townshend, Well Tempered, Sonegraphe, Teres, Galibier, and a few others. A few years ago I took the plunge into restored idlers, and owned  a TD124 and a 401, which were both nice tables. 

Now in the past I have tried to like DD tables, and owned a SP25, SP15, and fostered a 1200. I hated every single one of them, and found them to be dark, losing inner detail, and dynamically compressed. On a lark I bought a SP 10 MK II, thinking there is no way I like this thing, but got to give it a shot. It took me a couple of years to get it into a plinth, but once I started playing it I found it was the equal of the best tables I have heard. I ended up buying a Denon DP 75, then another SP 10 MK II. What I found is the drive units sound so similar, and get out of the way of the music. Cartridges and tone arms make far more difference than the drive units do. I have put some good cartridges on them, with a few being in the $4 to $6K range. And I even have love for a $175 Denon DL 304 I picked up and use as a casual vinyl cartridge on the second SP 10 MK II. 

People like what they like, and there is more than one way to audio nirvana. If you like a BD thats great, same with idler, heck us vinyl people should be celebrating that our little niche in the hobby is so strong these days. But I do know that a Technics SP 10 MK II is a mighty fine table, and they don't cost an arm and a leg, and you can get some remarkable sound quality from them if you invest a bit of time, effort, and money into them. 

Regards
Neonknight

"The WE-8000 is the only SAEC tonearm where the offset of the headshell is correct.The SAEC 506/30 was designed to be used with 10" and singles only. It’s geometry does reflect it. Out of curiosity I have calculated a different alignment for the 506/30 which does suit 12" records MUCH better" - @dertonarm

I’ve been thingling about that statement made by Dertonarm. Looking at my SAEC SS-300 mat i can say that even this mat was designed for singles (7’ inch records) and LPs.

http://img.ukaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1850936-rare-saec-ss300-special-alloy-mat-870g-made-in-japa...

This is the ONLY mat that i know with special concave for 7’ inch records while the other mats are totally flat. I believe SAEC did a great job for professional market back then.

As i said earlier if it was made for radio stations then the main format for new material on vinyl is SINGLES (7’ inch records), all promo material for the radiostation released by the labels on singles to promote the best tracks from the LP long time before the LP will be even pressed or available for sale. This is how the industry used to work back in the days. Singles with signs like "promo use only or D.J. copy" is typical for any radio archives. One song per side, about 3:50 min only, 45rpm. I believe @dertonarm is right at some point with his statement about SAEC tonearms, but i can just add that SAEC mat is also designed for singles! Think about it.

Some people really like the SAEC tonearms and don't seem to mind the alignment.

Here’s Miyajima Lab’s reference system where they refer to the SAEC WE308 as having the "structure of an ideal arm" (this particular headshell does not allow twisting the cartridge): http://www.miyajima-lab.com/system.html

And here’s thuchan posting on his "best turntable system" including the SAEC 506/30, which he has praised elsewhere, and the cartridge looks to be sitting straight: https://audiocirc.com/2018/04/24/best-system/

dER @sampsa55 : Your SAEC references posted means alñmost nothing.

Ignorance is the all " war's mother " and " impressive " systems means first than all that the owners are whealty ones but is not a true foundation that they have a high audio/music knowledge levels.

After the FR tonearms SAEC is the second worst design. SAEC tonearms are really builded with very high quality excecution and this is not under question but its true quality performance levels against for example other vintage one as the MAX 282 or vs some Technics models or even against today top designs.

Did you listen in your system or other very well know system the SAEC along a very good know cartridge by your self? compared vs other tonearms in the same system. Which other tonearms and with which other cartridges?  could you share your first hand experiences?

Btw, whom is thuchan?

R.

Dear @perkri:  "  no shame when insulting anyone who questions, or has an alternate viewpoint to your own. "

I don't have a shame because I'm not insulting any one. Ignorant is a person where his knowledge level is really high in a specific regards, ignorant word is not an insult but is a word that we can use in the time is need it.
No, it's not because some one is questioning me or have a different point of view but if those point of views are full of ignorance then that person is an ignorant and I'm not insulting. What that person must to do is learn.

I'm ignorant on several audio subjects ( still now. ) an over the time I try and learned on some of them.

" Absolute " knowledge just does not exist. No one has it.



"""  Music, live or reproduced, is not about math. It is about ART.."""

that's why I attend at least once a week to listen live MUSIC and yes is an ART and that's why moves each one of us, wake up our emotions/feelings.


"""   in a previous post, made you myopic attitudes quite clear as you have lambasted the SAT tonearm because it doesn’t facilitate your "math". And, you have done so without having ever heard it.  """

totally wrong your assumption. The main issue is that " facilitate or not " the math.
The main issue was and is that the SAT 32K tonearm came/comes with a wrong choosed dedicated alignment and the only thing I did it was to disclose it.

The absurd/no sense here is that you blame me for it ( to disclose the information for the very first time. ) .
I'm a simple audiophile as you are and if you want to blame some people that must be to the " proffesional reviewers " because that information was and is their main responsability: inform to their readers true information. TAS/ST reviewers just did not and as a fact no one but me did it but please don't blame me about because rigth now you are better informed on the SAT.
Btw, why need I to listen the SAT when I already know is wrong on that very critical alignment issue?. 

All thos reviewers in that specific SAT regards were ignorants and corrupted because when we don't give true information or disclose what is our responsability this fact is: corruption, it does not matters if it's by ignorance or in purpose.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.