2. amps-preamps
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Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?

Tube virgin, here. I am building a system and I'm trying to contain the preamp/amp cost to $3k or so. (I could go up a little.) 

I'm inclined not to dive into tubes all the way through, but get a solid state on the output end. (Open to suggestions; inclined toward PS Audio, Parasound.) I'm reading around about tube preamps and have talked with my local dealer, who sells Black Ice/Jolida and Prima Luna (PL). He used to carry Rogue but said they kept coming back for repairs. That's why he carries PL.

I'm asking these questions after having established (via reviews, comments) that Schiit gear is quite the value. Lately, I've been reading about Decware and other small tube makers. I'm very curious about buying direct, if possible, and a company that stands behind their products is crucial.

So, your opinions about tube integrated or *especially* tube preamps —

1. Who do you like? Consider I want to do pre/amp for a total of $3k if possible.

2. Do you think PL is worth all that money just for a preamp? I get the feeling they're high quality but a bit over-hyped. (No disrespect to the highly passionate Kevin Deal, but he's all over my search results.) And what would you think about $2k/$1k preamp-to-amp spending ratio?

3. Any sense of what happened to Jolida since the name change to "Black Ice"? I see there's a sordid story there but did the re-branding clear up the mess? Any experiences with the Black Ice company?

4. I know there are many Schiit fans out there; so my question would be -- did anyone consider Schiit for tube preamp and go another way? Or move beyond Schiit for any particular reason? It's hard not to just capitulate and do a Freya+ or Saga+ but why wouldn't one just go with Schiit?




128x128hilde45
mglik
908 posts
 
First, the only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
So, IMO, the most musical and human sound is from a single ended triode amp or preamp (SET). Think the SET is the oldest still used audio amp circuit. Used in the first Bell telephone systems (WE). Funny, SS wants to sound more like tubes and multiple output tube amps want to sound more like SETs... sort of.
I have two SET amps and an SET preamp. Would never change. Good to be off the "merry-go-round"! Importantly, I have a speakers I love and they work great with 1 1/2 or 8 watts.
Ralph, I respect your work. In my experience with one of your amps, it had a similar character to Dave Berning's OTLs: very clean and neutral sound and kind of SS sounding. Great to listen to but lacking in the "humanness" I love in SETs. Kind of "juicy". BTW-I love to listen to Dave's prototype MicroZOTL daily with my headphones. The OTL clarity is excellent for headphones. Listening to it as I write.
markusthenaimnut's avatar
markusthenaimnut
371 posts
 
@mglik 
Question for you, since I'm intrigued by your comments.

How efficient are your speakers? I have a pair of ~94 dB efficient speakers (in addition to Quad 2805s). It seems that 94dB is not quite in the happy zone for low powered SET amplifiers. Hence my question to you.

What SET equipment are you using? What else have you tried? What are your recommendations?

Thanks, in advance, for any help you can provide.

Markus
kray's avatar
kray
229 posts
 
What do you consider low power?

I’d probably want at least 4wpc with 94db speakers especially if they have more than one driver. 
I’m using Omega Super 6 with a single Alnico driver rated at 96db and works marvelously with 1.5wpc Oliver Sayes 45 based single ended amp. And a 3wpc DG-SE1 EL84 based single ended amp. 
Also having Oliver build me a low gain tube preamp. 
rbodner
52 posts
 
I love my concert fidelity cf-080LSX made by Masataka Tsuda
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,811 posts
 
So, IMO, the most musical and human sound is from a single ended triode amp or preamp (SET). Think the SET is the oldest still used audio amp circuit. Used in the first Bell telephone systems (WE). Funny, SS wants to sound more like tubes and multiple output tube amps want to sound more like SETs... sort of.

SETs are known for the warmth they have; that is caused by a predominate 2nd harmonic distortion. The ear assigns tonality to all forms of distortion; the 2nd is responsible for 'warmth', 'bloom' and the like. The 3rd and 4th contribute to this as well. 

A good SS amp might sound very tube-like; as both tube and solid state become more neutral they will sound more and more alike. IMO/IME the issue that plagues SETs is that most people simply don't use them on speakers that are efficient enough. This is because the amp should *never* be driven past about 20% of full power, otherwise the higher ordered harmonics begin to appear. The ear uses these harmonics to sense sound pressure; since music has many transients this distortion initially appears on transients, causing the amp to sound very 'dynamic'. This is why many SETs get comments about how dynamic they are despite their low power. Its distortion masquerading as 'dynamics'. Whenever you see that its because the user was using a speaker of insufficient efficiency!





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