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Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?

Tube virgin, here. I am building a system and I'm trying to contain the preamp/amp cost to $3k or so. (I could go up a little.) 

I'm inclined not to dive into tubes all the way through, but get a solid state on the output end. (Open to suggestions; inclined toward PS Audio, Parasound.) I'm reading around about tube preamps and have talked with my local dealer, who sells Black Ice/Jolida and Prima Luna (PL). He used to carry Rogue but said they kept coming back for repairs. That's why he carries PL.

I'm asking these questions after having established (via reviews, comments) that Schiit gear is quite the value. Lately, I've been reading about Decware and other small tube makers. I'm very curious about buying direct, if possible, and a company that stands behind their products is crucial.

So, your opinions about tube integrated or *especially* tube preamps —

1. Who do you like? Consider I want to do pre/amp for a total of $3k if possible.

2. Do you think PL is worth all that money just for a preamp? I get the feeling they're high quality but a bit over-hyped. (No disrespect to the highly passionate Kevin Deal, but he's all over my search results.) And what would you think about $2k/$1k preamp-to-amp spending ratio?

3. Any sense of what happened to Jolida since the name change to "Black Ice"? I see there's a sordid story there but did the re-branding clear up the mess? Any experiences with the Black Ice company?

4. I know there are many Schiit fans out there; so my question would be -- did anyone consider Schiit for tube preamp and go another way? Or move beyond Schiit for any particular reason? It's hard not to just capitulate and do a Freya+ or Saga+ but why wouldn't one just go with Schiit?




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atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,810 posts
 
So, IMO, the most musical and human sound is from a single ended triode amp or preamp (SET). Think the SET is the oldest still used audio amp circuit. Used in the first Bell telephone systems (WE). Funny, SS wants to sound more like tubes and multiple output tube amps want to sound more like SETs... sort of.

SETs are known for the warmth they have; that is caused by a predominate 2nd harmonic distortion. The ear assigns tonality to all forms of distortion; the 2nd is responsible for 'warmth', 'bloom' and the like. The 3rd and 4th contribute to this as well. 

A good SS amp might sound very tube-like; as both tube and solid state become more neutral they will sound more and more alike. IMO/IME the issue that plagues SETs is that most people simply don't use them on speakers that are efficient enough. This is because the amp should *never* be driven past about 20% of full power, otherwise the higher ordered harmonics begin to appear. The ear uses these harmonics to sense sound pressure; since music has many transients this distortion initially appears on transients, causing the amp to sound very 'dynamic'. This is why many SETs get comments about how dynamic they are despite their low power. Its distortion masquerading as 'dynamics'. Whenever you see that its because the user was using a speaker of insufficient efficiency!





mglik
908 posts
 
Hi Markus,
My speakers are only 90db but a very flat 8 ohm impedance.
And my listening tastes are mostly acoustic and not high volume.
My amps are pretty expensive 4 chassis 300B at 8 watts but they have a lot of push with the separate power supplies.
sls883
351 posts
 

@bluethinker Marcus, I received your message, but I can't reply, so I dug up an old post.  I don't have payment information and a phone number on file with Audiogon, so I can't send messages.

I have a couple of output tubes (using Sylvania bad boy 12SN7GT), but the input tubes seem to make the most difference.

My favorites are Telefunken Diamond Bottom ECC801S.  A close second are Siemens ECC801S (German made in 60's or early 70s). I could happily live with these.  They have just slightly less detail than the Telefunken.

I have also used Brimar 6060 Yellow T (CV4024).  If you want a warmer tube with slightly rolled off highs, they sound great.  Tried some JAN-Philips 12AT7WC because they were cheap.  They actually weren't too bad, but I didn't use them. The preamp shipped with some Trigon 12AT7 that were actually my least favorites.

sls883
351 posts
 

@bluethinker I should mention these tubes are used in my LTA MicroZotl preamp.

 

limomangus's avatar
limomangus
1,426 posts
 

Yeah I have a Chinese tube preamp ,I use with with my Carver 500T.Sounds great.

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