Shopping for new speakers-need ideas... Selling old DQ-10's...
As I get older my Dahlquist DQ-10’s are simply too bright and give me an earache. I’ve tried different amps so that is not the issue. I just bought a Marantz PM-KI Ruby amp to pair with them. They sound great, but after some time the ear issue comes up. However, I am looking for new speakers to match with my new amp. These are my desires:
-Not as bright as my Dahlquist DQ-10’s, but not as distant sounding as my Aerial 6s. I do like speakers on the warm side nowdays, but not muddy of course
-Great separation of sound so you catch the detail
-Bass not too punchy as I’ve always had ear trouble with this
-I love midrange
-I don’t like too sharp highs anymore unfortunately
-I love an open sound even airy sound.
What I may be describing is something that is between the DQ-10s and the Aerial 6s. Not in my face, but not behind a wall sounding like the Aerials. Something smooth yet with texture and good separation.
I always loved the phased array design of the DQ-10s and my DQ-8s since I have had since 1993. They are open and airy with tons of soundstage potential.
I listen to a variety of music from ‘60’s and 70’s folk to ‘90’s hard rock like Collective Soul. I’m a 70’s guy and love classic rock, but I lean in the Steely Dan direction. I love progressive rock like Rush and Emerson, Lake and Palmer. I’m also fond of Sade and similar artists in that genre. Jazz is an occasional venture to the likes of Joshua Redman and older stuff like Ramsey Lewis.
Now that I have this magnificent Marantz amp I’m ready to pair them with something that is more of a fit with it and my now limited ears. Earaches suck when you are trying to enjoy some music. This is a lot better now with the Marantz amp, but I still feel a slight ache at medium volumes.
I’ve watched a lot of YouTube videos reviews and I’ve started reading some things.
+1 on Egglestonworks. Designed to be non-fatiguing, great mids, great imaging.
I just sold my Emma’s, which would be in your price range. You should look for a pair of those used, they’re an insane value for the money. Only sold them because I liked the Emmas so much I upgraded to the Kivas as soon as I could afford too.
Not exactly what you were thinking of, but you'd be thrilled. I've been running a set of Linkwitz Orions for 15 years now and am still delighted every time I fire 'em up.
You should first try to upgrade the crossover network in the DQ-10s. Use air-core inductors, quality film caps, quality, non-sand resistors; and be sure to add upscacle .01 uF 5% paper-in-oil bypass caps to the tweeter section. You may just save yourself a lump of cash. John Paul
I dunno what power your Ruby or the size/build of your room but, properly driven, Magnepans .7s or (like I have) 1.7s I think are exactly what you'd like.
Thanks for answering my question about bookshelf speakers. After research I am down between:
Tannoy Revolution XT 8F Vandersteen 2Ce Signature III Martin Logan ESL LSA-20 Signature
Ideally, I would be able to just go somewhere and listen, but that is not possible. So, now that I am focused on these four I will be looking at more reviews. What would be nice is to find a dealer that sells all or most of these and and get their opinions, but so far I have not found that... Again, thanks to everyone!!! Onward. Oh, and if you have opinions on any of these pro or con, please post. Thanks.
+1 b_limo's comment on sound stage. I love the warmth and honesty of the Carbons but I compared them to taller towers and there is a real difference, there. I retract some of my earlier enthusiasm given what you've stated you want, OP.
From your description of the sound you want I think Maggie's will fill the bill nicely. With them you can just add a higher value resistor if you feel they are bright.
Thats a tough one. The 2ce is a great speaker. In my oppinion, the 2CE will sound larger and have a fuller sound. The 2ce will probably fill that space better. The price difference between the Carbon 7SE at TMR and the 2CE is substantial though and with that $ you could buy a pair of subs with the Carbons...
I think that the Carbons are going to offer more precise imaging within a soundstage but the 2CE will have a larger soundstage. The Carbons may have a slightly more natural and warm tone to them. The 2ce will sound full, slightly laid back but still have good detail. I had a pair of 2CE’s and really liked them too. I’ve always kind of longed for another pair to be honest. Tough call on that one George. I do like the idea of being able to easily replace a driver “in the field” though if you ever blow something. The drivers in the Carbons would be something you could get pretty easy. Im not sure how much room you have behind the speakers to work with but you should check out those Spatial Audio Turbo S’s as well. Those should fill your room nicely too and I beg the sound great with Rock like Rush etc.
@b_limo I see these are bookshelf two-way speakers. What advantage would these hold over speakers like the Tannoy Revolution XT 8F or the Vandersteen 2Ce Signature III which are around the same price considering the requirements I listed in my first post? I am only curious because I would like to learn and I had not considered bookshelf speakers in my room that is fairly large (26x16 est. without measuring). These speakers would also double as theatre speakers in that room. Thanks for any teachings you can provide!!!
Those look like awesome speakers too nsm. I was looking at the turbo s about a year ago too. Im sitting here listening to music this morning and even after almost a year, these Carrera BE’s are so juicy. They just sound really nice.
George, I wouldn’t sleep on those Carbons... you ought to pick them up if you like the walnut finish. They’re a good deal at $2500, this pair at TMR is $1299. That pair or walnut veneer looks awesome. All of Fritz’s speakers are beautifully made and they are all book matched. The left and right speakers match as well and the veneer is continuous from one side to the top to the other side. Point is, they’re built like little tanks and handcrafted by someone who really knows what he is doing.
I moved on from a pair of ADS L1090’s to the Spatial Audio M4 Turbo S models. No fatigue after very long sessions. Bass is very nicely presented, even in a smallish room, 15’x13’. Highly recommended.
Wharfedale Linton Heritage. I have two pairs in twin stacks; over a double layer of Sorbothane sheet. Amped with a pair of Precision Audio 250 WPC mono blocks; hybrid SS and valve power amplifiers.
@georgethedog, I think you’d like those Fritz Carbon 7 SE’s at The Music Room. For $1299 they are an absolute steal. Really nice Scan Speak Drivers, solid cabinets, these ones have different crossovers from Danny at GR research...
Theres a 14 day return window if you don’t like them.
I have the Carreras and they’re awesome. Fritz buids really nice speakers.
I'm leaning in the Vandersteen direction. I'm weighing some others before I pull the trigger on the Vandersteens. Audio Advice gives me 30 days to return. Anyone know of any other good vendors that will allow a return???
Another + for Vandersteen. They are not bright. They have a laid-back sound. They are not fatiguing. They are easy to listen to for all the time you want. They are soundstaging and imaging champs, having that elusive 3D quality typically found with planars, yet they have deeper and tighter bass than most planars. I've owned four pairs of Vandies since the 80s. The model 1 is below your budget, the model 2 is slightly over, if you're buying new.
The @+username feature only works about 1/3rd of the time. There is always a limited number of names offered in the drop-down menu when you hit @, and often the person to whom you're trying to respond isn't listed there. One of the glitches of the forum.
Look for used Tannoy Prestige Series, like Sterling or Turnberry. They fit your criteria’s perfectly. Don’t buy any other speaker unless you listen to Tannoy’s otherwise you will back here in no time asking for recommendations.
I had the DQ-10's new for many years. yes they can be on the bright side but I have a certain fondness for them. Some have suggested reworking the speaker but I think that may take you down a rabbit hole that may become expensive due to replacing other parts. I would also suggest looking at speakers with silk dome tweeters. Perhaps a used pair so you can really upgrade your sound.
I second the idea of getting rid of the piezo tweeter. DQ-10’s were my first high end speakers. After also having a issue with the highs I upgraded the crossover with better caps and swapping out the piezo to Decca ribbons. This upgrade took the speakers to a much higher level. I loved them so much that when the upgrade bug hit me I just stacked them with another pair of DQ’10s. I kept them for over 10 years—longer then any other high end speaker I have owned. The Decca ribbons are no longer being made, but I would suggest you look into other brands and upgrade the the crossovers as well, at their age they probably need new caps anyway.
You may want to look into Spatial Audio open baffle speakers. I used to own the DQ-20's and now own the Spatial Audio M4 Triode Master. They check all the boxes for the type of sound you described. New speakers are over your budget but used ones can be had for less.
I'm a huge Steely Dan fan, too. I've listened to a lot of their music as I auditioned speakers. Given your question and parameters, I recommend Fritz Speakers, either the Carbon 7 or the Carreras. Either will wind up close to your $3k mark. I made a brief video review of the Carreras, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn3h3Tk6PzE&feature=youtu.be
In the description of that video are links to two longer, print, reviews done here in Audiogon. The Carbons have that nice silk dome tweeter with gentle treble. Carreras are more detailed but I don’t find them harsh. Fritz is easy to talk to and work with, and typically allows a trial period.
I've had my ADS 1230s for over 37 years with nary an ear ache in all that time. Most of the ADS models employ soft dome tweeters and mid ranges. They're open and airy, with great imaging and resolution. All the ones on the market are used, of course, most of them, even the top L-series, priced way below your budget.
Have you ever thought about replacing the tweeters? I had DQ-10’s and the first thing I did was replace the tweeters with Decca ribbon tweeters. They were the best I found at the time and they made a huge difference!
I think MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL speakers would be a great option in your price range. They are dipoles so will give you that open and airy stage you’re used to, and I find their treble to be nicely detailed but never harsh or forward sounding with very clear and present mids. A potential plus is they’re carried by Best Buy (along with Marantz) so if you have one of those you can give them a good listen. Best of luck.
audioguy85, I never really considered bookshelf speakers... the room is probably 17'x 26' and whatever I buy will second as the right and left channels for my 7.1 theatre setup (Marantz AVR also...). Wow, it would be strange going from these giant 5-way DQ-10s to 2-way bookshelves on stands. But, when our local hifi shop was open they had some impressive speakers that size so maybe you are right. I'll have to research this alternative! As an aside... I had quite a great car audio setup years ago with audiophile quality Canton car speakers (not sure they make them anymore), and I always liked the sound better out of the front 2-way than I did the rear 3-ways. Maybe there is something to that. If you get a chance please expound on the virtues of going to a 2-way bookshelf speaker if you would. I do have a REL T9 subwoofer to control the lows. Thanks so much!
I’d go with the following...harbeth p3esr, spendor A1, wharfedale dentons on the lower end of scale. The Wharfedale Lintons are nice as well, but may overwhelm with bass. All do detail very well. That’s a nice Marantz integrated. One of the last graced with the deft touch of the master Ken Ishiwata. I own the Marantz pm14s1, he helped design that one too. Marantz has a long history of being paired up with British designed speakers, particularly Wharfedales.
Rane EQ maybe your best friend to SMOOTH things out for a vintage speaker, without making a MAJOR PURCHASE, I have a Rane on my Altec 19's with a nice tube amp and I can control my EAR BLEEDS for my horns on top, since you are listening to 70's smooth rock & roll.
Thanks everyone. Some great advice and recommendations. I am keeping a list and then doing more research. Please, if you have not commented yet do so if you would like.
Had the speakers decades ago. They are open baffle speakers and have a wonderful openness that most box speakers don’t. Options that do:
--Another open baffle:
1.Spatial audios start at $3500 2. Tri-Art B Series 4 Doug Schroeder wrote a great review of this brand and the listening room has used set $3000
--LSA speakers: wide dispersion box speakers with a similar open sound. Talk to Wally at Underwood hi fi. Even the $1300 bookshelf speaker I have generate amazingly good bass and open sound. They have $2500 larger bookshelf and at least one floor standing that are in your price range. Think you can try and return if you don’t like.
---Maggies (but tiny sweet spot) --Probably ohm omnis but haven’t heard them in decades.
Try disconnecting the Piezo super tweeter on the DQ10. Many DQ10 owners did that to tame down the brightness of that speaker. Many moons ago I owned the DQ10 and although being a tad bright, I thought is was a very enjoyable speaker !
I used to have a pair of DQ30's and felt the same way about the highs. Have you ever tried switching out the tweeters? Check out PBN's. I have the Montana EPS speakers and they are exactly as you described. Great separation, lows are well defined but not too deep (I have a sub for that), highs are not overly bright, and the midrange is absolutely fantastic. Voices and acoustic guitar are outstanding. The EPS is over the budget you posted but I've heard several of their models that are priced below mine and they all had that same, beautiful, silky midrange. The tradeoff was usually in the lower octaves and it sounds like you aren't that bass-crazy anyway. Tube gear may also calm down the highs on your DQ10's if you wanted to try that out.
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