Single ended = large images?


I'm thinking about trying single ended amps. Years ago for a short time I had Cary 805b monos. I absolutely loved everything about the sound, except that they made all the images very large... Which for me took away from the realism. 

 

Do all the Cary 805 models do this? Not sure if the 211 option on the anniversary edition might be different? I saw a comment by Dennis had that the large image size was intentional and an artifact of zero feedback. 

 

If that's just the way the cary amps are, are there other brands of relatively high power single-ended amps that might not present images in a large and upfront manner? My main speakers are Verity Audio Parsifal, which are only 89 DB efficient. I also have a six pack of REL G2 subwoofers. I want to preserve as much dynamics as possible while moving to single ended, which is why the cary amps are attractive to me... Meaty transformers and a fair amount of power. My room is 15x29 and I listen moderately loudly but not very loudly. Mix of jazz, blues, rock and classical piano.

 

I appreciate any thoughts and any recommendations of other brands that might do what I'm looking for -- that single ended magic without giant forward images. Pricewise I'm looking in the $4k to $7k range used.

 

Thanks

montaldo

Thanks. I think you all provide good advice. Unless I can get a loan to try, I may just try some tube rolling ing v4 amps, such as trying kt-120 or kt88 tubes. Or think about one of my lost loves, the vac Renaissance 300b amp, which is pure magic and would achieve some of what I want to try. But need the 30/70 or 70/70 versions, and it's a lot of 300b tubes.

 

My Parsifals are early models and I believe are 89dB. Later models like the anniversary, and maybe the ovation, have higher efficiency.

I cant imagine an amplifier increasing the perceived size of instruments. Normally this is the results of speakers and interaction with the room. SETs are very quick to clip and do so in a very subtle fashion so what you are experiencing might be the result of overdriving the amps. P.P. type designs tend to sound a bit fuzzy or confused however by comparison which is why I settled on OTLs.

With OP's six pack setup providing much of his sound stage and imaging needs he doesn't need a amplifier/speaker combo that provides a larger image, sound stage or up front presentation. Every SET I've owned, 845 and 300B partnered with physically large, efficient speakers provides exactly what he doesn't need. I'd suggest sticking with push pull tubes or solid state, more laid back perspective, sound staging and imaging more in line with his needs. For people who haven't experienced Rel subs you need to hear the special way they affect sound staging, integration such that they simply become extensions of your main speakers. The Rels are affecting the entire frequency spectrum in regard to sound staging and imaging. 

OP: From what you’ve described, take a look at the AGD Audion monoblocks. I’ve heard them at several audio shows. Here’s a review from a reviewer who had an all tube system.

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Music can sound full-bodied without having bloated imagery. It takes time to find the right synergy between the components, the cabling and especially, the speaker positioning.

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Re: 6C33C tube.   Years ago, I owned these Artemis monoblocks. Depending on the bias setting, the 6C33C tubes lasted somewhere around 2000 hours or so. I used to buy them in bulk @ 20 tubes/order - directly from Russia or Ukraine. Now with the war, the prices have skyrocketed. And they’re no longer manufactured.

What you attribute to REL subs can be found with other subs of very high quality. I agree it isnt as much the bass as how it opens the system up. 90% of subs are crossed over at too high a frequency. I still maintain it isnt his amps.

I have heard the AGDs at several shows and my take was a bit different. These were the best class D I have heard but they also, like other class D, had a 2 dimensional quality. The music didnt fully come off the front of the speakers. To really judge them I would need to listen to them in my room so perhaps this comment isnt entirely fair. My take away from one show was not how good the AGDs sounded, but how accomplished the pro speakers used were.