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Sound Cards

Well, in another thread, I got great advice on this topic, which I am now exploring further. I am looking to be able to record LPs and perhaps CDs.

I found this good link, which tests various sound cards along various technical criteria: http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/compare/index.htm

The Turtle Beach Santa Cruz is the highest-rated "consumer" card, rated "excellent" in all areas except signal-to-noise ("very good") and dynamic range ("very good"). This card lists for $80, and costs a mere $40 extra when buying a Dell.

I'm trying to decide if this is good enough.

1. A poster pointed out that the Turtle Beach card doesn't do A/D conversion at 24/96 (it does 18/44), and that even though CDs are only 16/44, the extra headroom allows for digital manipulation of the "image" without loss of quality prior to recording. What if I don't care to manipulate the sound files (I don't imagine having time)? Will there be an audible difference between 18/44 and 24/96 when doing "no-fiddle" copies from LP or CD?

2. The more expensive cards seemed aimed primarily at musicians, and allow mixing signals from various sources, and the like. None of this applies to me. Are these more expensive cards harder to use, or less appropriate for my purpose for any reason?

3. What is S/PDIF? It seems to allow attaching the CD source directly to the sound card (internal to the computer). Is this desirable? Or is it preferable to write the file to hard disk first, then burn it, to avoid timing issues?

4. Since the cost of the higher-end cards is about the same as the cost of a mass-market standalone CD burner stereo component, would I be better off just buying one of the latter?

5. Finally, what higher-end card do people prefer? I've found three internal cards that are listed in the above link as "excellent" across the board, cost $400 or less, have Windows XP support, and do 24/96 A/D conversion:
-- Digital Audio Card Deluxe. $400. Well-reviewed in this forum.
-- Midiman Audiophile 2496. $230. The only one of these three that doesn't support balanced inputs. Also reviewed positively in this forum.
- Echo Audio MIA. "Under $250". Not mentioned in this forum so far.

Thank you for any comments/advice!

- Eric
ehart
pe3046
120 posts
 
Check out the stereolink $130
www.stereolink.com
or the
onkyo USB SE-55 I think is the name $75-130

these are usb audio devices that allow you to process the signal outside of your pc. The stereolink has analog only outputs and the onkyo has both digital and analog out. I use a santa cruz and have it running to the coxial input on my dac. Sounds good, but I have the stereo and the pc connected to different grounds and I get noise.

Patrick
gboren
143 posts
 
Ehart, I use the DAL Card Deluxe and I only do vinyl restoration. I do not use it for any other purpose, except for playing occasional audio files on the web. Here's my take on your questions. Bear in mind that there will be a lot of different opinions and you will just have to listen to all sides and make up your own mind.

1. If you are just going to copy to digital without fiddling with the file, and for the purpose of cutting redbook cd's (ie, 16/44) I doubt you will hear a difference. It might be argued that the algorithm for digitizing at 24/96 and then downsampling/dithering to 16/44 gives a better digital representation than going straight to 16/44 but I do not hear the difference. However, you may want the 24/96 file to play direct to your stereo (it sounds great) and you may also want it if and when the software is available to convert a 24/96 wav file to DVD-A. That would be real cool!

2. The more expensive cards are not more difficult to use and offer more editing capability. Having said that, you should know that the editing time for 24/96 files is significantly longer than for 16/44. I have a 1.3Ghz Pentium IV with 256Mb ram and it takes about 15 minutes to depop 60 minutes of music in 24/96. It only takes about 1 minute or less to do the same task in 16/44. 60 minutes of music will take about 520Mb of disc space at 16/44 compared to about 1.7Gb at 24/96.

3. I believe SPDIF stands for "Sony Philips Digital InterFace", or something like that. You certainly do not need it if copying vinyl (you will use an analog input) and you also won't need it to copy 16/44 to 16/44. You would be better off copying to your hard drive first using your cdr or another cd drive and then copying to the burner. Many will argue that the computer cd drive is sub-optimal. I disagree. In any event, SPDIF is only useful if you want to copy from a stereo cd transport into your computer (and your transport has SPDIF.)

4. Some of the standalones work fine (check out the HHB). The downside is lack of control. With a standalone, you cannot later break up the file into separate tracks and you cannot do any audio cleanup.

5. I have a DAL Card Deluxe and I am very happy with it. I have also tried the Soundblaster Audigy which was not nearly as nice. I have not tried the others so I cannot compare it to those. I do know that DAL has a 30 day money back guaranty.

good luck and feel free to contact me if you have any further questions.
ehart OP
215 posts
 
Gboren,

1. You make this "de-popping" sound really simple. Is it a quick one-button type thing, or does it involve multiple steps and real effort?

2. If I still didn't care about "control" and editing, is the basic sound quality of the component-type CD burner (say, the HHB) going to be as good as the 16/44 CDs I would produce with a good sound card?

Thanks for your patience with these questions!

- Eric
gboren
143 posts
 
Eric,
1. Yes, depopping can be as simple as hitting a button. What I mean is that most software packages come with a depop utility. All you need to decide is how much depop you want to apply: Less removes less of the pops and clicks, but will have no effect on the music; more runs the risk of changing the music. So, all you do is select the depop tool, select your desired level and hit "go". The software is designed to recognize the unique sound pattern of pops and clicks. Of course, from there you can also manually apply various techniques to correct specific blemishes. You can also record a "sound print" of a blank spot on the record and the system can then remove similar sounding patterns which helps to reduce background noise. Of course, all this is extra "fiddling" and also runs the risk of affecting the music. But if done right, the results can be excellent.

2. I am very happy with my system. However, I can understand someone wanting a no fuss method. If all you want to do is copy directly to 16/44 cd, you will do sonically just as well as (or better than) if you use a computer based system to copy directly to 16/44 without depopping, denoising, etc.

If you are going to go the no fuss way, I strongly recommend one of the HHB's. They have an excellent a/d converter and they do not use copy protection. Their entry level (830 Burnit) goes for under $600.00 at B&H).

Let us know what you decide and how you like it.
rwwear
2,866 posts
 
For copying vinyl I usa a Marantz pro CD burner. It is a standalone unit and since it is a pro model it uses computer cdrs and has none of the copyguard issues that the consumer models have. J&R has a newer model than mine for 479.00 I believe. For CD copying, most of the time I use a TDK burner in my computer. But sometimes I use the Marantz because I'm using my computer for something else or just want to go to bed and let the CD record while I'm asleep.

Robert Wear
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