Speaker recommendation $10-20K (with some requirements!)


Recent lessons of the developing audiophile:


  • Don’t buy speakers without demonstration

  • Speaker break in is real...but will not fundamentally change DNA

  • Really appreciate the wisdom of this forum!


I recently changed my old B&W Matrix 803 Series 2 with new Dynaudio Countour 60i’s. A number of you helped on my: How important is speaker break-in? post - thanks! The Dyn’s are not fully broken in, but I think I can see where this is going: They have great soundstage, detail, and bass. In comparison, the B&Ws sound smaller, thinner, slightly less detailed overall, and do not throw big bass. (The B&W’s are supplemented nicely with a quality subwoofer, but that still sounds a little more like component parts stitched together, than the way the Dyn’s deliver an integrated output).  


The problem? The Dyn’s are hard in the mids and highs, and my (aging) ears are very sensitive to that. I have some tinnitus that I usually don’t notice...unless a hard or ringing sound sets it off, and these speakers are doing it big time. Immediately fatiguing (unless the recording is just somebody plucking at a bass guitar). The B&Ws are pretty sweet in the mid-range and most recordings don’t trip my hard/edgy line. So, I WILL go demo before buying this time, but I am hoping this group can help narrow the search a bit, and I am letting budget drift up if that helps get it done. Here are constraints and goals, and equipment:


*Absolutely must be smooth and silky - not hard, edgy, ringing, brittle, etc. - in the mids and highs. Ironically, I tend to listen mostly to heavier music, but I care mostly about sweet and detailed delivery of delicate sounds, like vocals and piano. For say, heavy metal, I don’t care if the system reproduces it perfectly, only that it tilts away from ragged, ringing tones as much as possible.


*After that, I want a big, authoritative sound with meaningful bass, detail - everything one would want in a speaker, but compromises can be made.  


*Room Treatments. Room is medium size, does not have treatments, and it is what it is. It is not a dedicated audio room, so I can’t start throwing stuff up on the walls (WAF). (The room does have the benefit of being wood floor applied directly to concrete (with a rug), so at least the floor doesn’t resonate. And it has 2 layers of sheetrock in places). I will live with my room compromises, but the sound coming out the speakers themselves does matter and I want to focus on that.


*Prefer tower style for aesthetics and fit, but open to boxy (e.g. Harbeth) if that’s where I need to go.  


* Equipment: All digital inputs to ARC DAC 8 -> ARC Ref5se preamp -> Bryston 7BSST2 monoblocks (600W). I get that the whole system matters, and that Brystons are supposed to be a little hard. But this problem really started with the new speakers, so that is where I am focusing. If you really think different amps or something are going to turn the Dynaudio’s silky sweet in the mids and high, please say that with some conviction and support.


As always, really appreciate the greater knowledge of this community!



mathiasmingus
Merry Christmas!

What you're looking for you can find in hybrid electrostatics.

I'm partial Martin Logan myself. Audition a pair of ESL 11A's
https://www.martinlogan.com/en/product/impression-esl-11ahttp://

If the bass doesn't grab you, add a sub.

As a musician, the ML's sound like the instruments are in the room with you. 

As one of my fellow audio-crazy friends once said, after listening to my ML's for the first time: "I've always read audio reviews where the reviewer states you could hear the individual notes. I never knew what they meant... until now." 
JBL synthesis 4367, these are the best speakers ever for rock & metal. In my experience, I like them best with a good tube amp like Bob Carver or Ayon.  Also great because you don’t have to mess with a subwoofer.  Great bass, clarity, dynamics and imaging.
I listened extensively to the Salk Song3 BeAT.  There was a great deal to recommend it; but on an orchestral selection with massed ff violins, there was a hint of glare, that I blamed on the beryllium tweeter.  The only BE tweeter that I liked across the board was in Fritz's Carrera 3.  As far as the OP is concerned, by far the safest option is something with a soft dome.
Post removed 
Seems I started in a similar place as you.  I also now have some tinnitus that can be triggered by certain harsh, edgy sounds. I had the B&W 802 Series 3 for a long time (they're now with my son) originally driven by Bryston 4B 250W/channel (mid-90's version). The combination was great in many ways, but wasn't as satisfying as I liked in the upper mid-range and higher. I heard the Pass Labs class A amps that were available at the time and purchased the Aleph 4, which is a single chassis 100W/channel amp and is something of a rarity.  That combination was outstanding in many ways.  It did a better job in those upper and mid-ranges, but didn't have quite the bass "slam" that some reviewers seem so enamored with.  In fact, the bass sounded more natural to real life (acoustic and classical live performances are my basis for comparison).  I lived with that combination for almost 20 years.  

The only problem I had with the Pass class A amp was that it was a more efficient heat generator than my furnace, which was just fine for half of the year or more.  In summer I was effectively paying to both heat and cool the house at the same time.  So I set out on a quest to find a more modest "summer" system for those warm summer days.  

In the course of auditioning components, I happened to audition a pair of used Linn Akurate bookshelf speakers that sounded really fine.  I then made the mistake of auditioning a used floor standing 242 version too.  They were the newer version at the time, but didn't have any of the various advanced cross-over or active power options.  I ended up purchasing them instead when I was actually intending to replace the amp.  They sounded wonderful with the Pass amp, the listening fatigue I sometimes got from even the Pass/802 combo went away.  Linn doesn't seem to get much love in the U.S. or on this site and isn't as widely available here.  Some reviewers described them as outstanding yet panned them for being "clinical," which I attribute to the reviewers penchant for loud music that is already processed through electronics even in live performance.  Linn's website talks about "tunefulness," which I think is a pretty apt description. The speakers have a harmonious balance among the frequencies, especially the mid and upper frequencies, without sacrificing accurate bass..  Their musicality really becomes apparent with acoustic and classical music, and in longer listening sessions where fatigue is non-existent.  In addition, they sound great at low and high volumes and in-between, which I have not found to be true in many higher-end speakers. It was the long listening sessions that clearly set them apart from the others.

But I was originally out to find a summer amp.  I found a used Linn Akurate 4 channel amp at a reasonable price.  I used all 4 channels to bi-amp the speakers.  I found after a couple of switchovers between the Pass and Linn amps that I preferred the Linn amp/speaker setup, though not by a huge margin, so that has become and still is my primary listening system.

With all that said, though I'm not at all unhappy with my system,  in the past year or so I've surveyed the speaker market to see if there were any marked improvements that would compel me to upgrade.  I listened to a number of the speakers mentioned by other commenters.  I found that I liked the Magico speakers best.  I auditioned both the A and S series models in long sessions, beautiful sound, but over-priced in my estimation (though maybe not in comparison to many of the other current products out there).  I found I still preferred the Linn 242's, though not by much of a margin.  

In summary from my experience, I think some of the comments about the contribution of amplifiers are appropriate to a degree; cables not so much, though there are some clear mismatches that don't seem actually related to price.  The only way to find whether the speakers will satisfy your requirements is to audition the speakers for extended periods with your music and your components at both high and low volumes and at your normal listening levels.  

Though I'd previously purchased new, in my venture to find that summer system, I've had good luck with used components, both from here and from local dealers.