Steam cleaning records 2

Hi Kipdent
what your are telling is practically a 1 for 1 story I could relate (Just not in the very lucid and detailed description of yours)

You mention 'stubborn' particles causing pops or ticks. For the ones raised above the groove surface I found also no other method than by using a finger nail (as gently as possible). I use a Hannl MERA, which does a very good job but it can not always get rid of those.

As far as cavitation and the steam cleaning goes, I really do not want to start some scientific 'side thread' on this. As an ex-wind surfer and water sports person I am very familiar with this phenomena -- check under spin-out...
My point, steam is expanded water i.e. of lesser density, it is the same as in water, when due to high surface speeds water under suction (close to vacuum) creates a 'steam bubble'. Water CAN boil at room temperature if you simply lower the pressure, the same principal used in the 'steam cleaner'. It is the sudden collapse / contraction of these tiny steam/vacuum bubbles that affect the surface they are imploding on. It lifts off particles in the extremely fast and millions of times over and over repeated process of bubble implosions. This is the steam cleaners action, not high temperature (its actually pretty cool) or jet pressure or what ever.

There you have it, now go argue some more.
Steam cleaning works, no doubt, but I have my reservations about it, and it is very messy. Not my idea of efficient record cleaning.

A last point for Kipdent and the 'irremovable' tick (it is seldom a pop). If it is a POP, you find 9/10 some VERY HEAVY VTF cart stylus was dropped from some height, creating a usually round indent, effecting 2 - 3 grooves. Can't do a thing here i.e. irreparable damage.
Next, the small ticks and also more continuous crackle or groove noise. I had some of these, and then some. More often, if not all, are pretty hard vinyl of some vintage. 'Mercuries' and 'Turnabout' come to mind again. The more you clean, the worse they sound. It is my contention that these are simply signs of groove disintegration / break-up, the groove is 'chipped out' and gets more chipped out by repeated cleaning efforts --- steam cleaning should truly give them the rest and clean them beyond listening.

Greetings,
Axel

Crem1
I can see your fear-factor in spending money on some dud cleaner. I did, but look at the price of the most expensive Nitty, please!? Nowhere near 2k, nowhere near...

There are different quality products out there, yes --- like with every thing else i.e. "you get what you pay for".

I had to learn this over and over, so I got the best (well 2nd most best) and it works best. It's what the Japanese once called the Rolls-Royce of cleaners. This costs still not more than 2k, just to get our numbers straight.

Greetings,
Axel

Gee, I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my review, or at least Crem1. I thought I went out of my way to be fair and just describe my experiences in a detailed and polite way. I'm not sure what I said that warranted the response you posted, Crem1, but I'm sorry if I upset you. I've thanked you repeatedly for helping me and going out of your way to obtain the steamer for me--I was just relating personal experiences, that's all.

Take care--

We've already had a previous thread on steaming removed because of negativity and personal attacks. For now steaming lps works better than all else i've tried cleaning my lps. If something better comes along i will check it out. You cant get better if you sit on your butt and believe you have the holy grail.

There is a difference in like and dislike and thats normal. Whats a good thing for one is not so good for another. As Kipdent and Tvad replayed above steaming is not for them. Thats the reason i love this Country and our way of life. We are not stuck with one way of doing something, brands, or politics because we have the freedom to do as we please.

I believe an apology it owed to this thread.
Mike

Kip: Let's put this all in context. Your first sream cleaning experience was negative , mainly because you were not using that instant water boiler correctly. That one was returned to Home Depot. On the second unit I went out of my way spending my own money to assist you with the second steamer, a "Living Solution" that comes with a 2 year no hassel return policy; so why not return it?

Kip: FYI, PayPal has not yet forwarded any record of payment to me. So I maybe out the $51 bucks.

Over-All, what's of concern are your public remarks vs private comments I will outline below. Its vexing. You use the steamer once or twice , in a who knows who manner, declaring it worthless. This is the second time that has happened. Yet, in face to face "shoot-outs" with RCM's with noted designers personally on-hand, even they acknowledge the power of Steam Cleaning.

Kip, I believe the problem isn't with the steamer its either the vinyl is damaged , or the turntable is not properly set-up causing mis-tracking, an easy thing to do. Apparently, the grunge on one LP was so bad that even after steaming it took a nuge from your fingernail to dislodge it ... Now,that's real grunge.

For those that are RCM users, I have always said RCMS have a place in steam cleaning. A vacuum machine like a VPI 16.5 is excellent to pair/combo with steam.

Kip,perhaps, I misread your email noting that steaming was an improvement. Whats up? First you likey and then you don't? I have a suggestion-before making any claims steam several hundred LPS to get a feel for the vast number with manufacturing defects and prior owner abuse issues.

As I have mentioned in public & privately, near 50% of the LPS I formerly purchased were defective. I have greatly improved that take-home number by careful review using hi-rez reading glasses & angeling over-head lighting. Fifteen years ago that number was even higher, until I started to learn how to kull out the herd. And thats' about the time I started my search to find a better way to clean LPS that I now do via Steam.

Recently, I opined that several LP collections , totalling several thousands of LPS were given to me. So far, I have disposed of near 70%(to goodwill) because of defects , keeping only the creme for crem1. The only exception were those LPS from the 1950-60's so rare they are worth bucks in vg condition.

Kip, without experience how do you tell whats defective and whats not ? That's what comittment to vinyl is all about. CD's are EASY, LPS are difficult.

As for the payment problem, should PayPal not confirm your payment in a week I suspect I will never see it thru PayPal. If that is the case please put a trace on your account before sending me a personal check. I suspect that PayPal will return your payment to you ASAP being unable to find me. Not your problem theirs.

Kip, I certantly don't think that you aren't steaming , I do question your comittment to vinyl. Do yourself a favor, return to the second steamer to your local Walgreens for a refund. Kip buy CDS , your audio-life will greatly improve.You can always shed the analog front end on AG. All the best. Charlie