Stylus-Drag..Fact or Fiction?

’Very interesting thread. As I read through these responses, I have to wonder if the original recording mechanism, the record lathe that cuts the master from which the molds are made, is equally subject to modulation induced speed variations. ’

@pickindoug- Phoenixengr addressed that exact issue, just four posts before yours.

^^^^  up 2 posts

@peterayer 

Peter
your findings were very interesting (One table short of a Goldilocks adventure.) 

Your findings are supported by what Richard said.

richardkrebs
The level of granularity we use to measure TTs is simply too crude to show us what is going on in real time under dynamic conditions.

But we sure can hear it.

Still

IMO, based on my personal journey, "Stylus Drag" is not an Iceberg Scenario, where most of what is happening is below the surface; where this thread is focused.  The table and keeping speed. 

What is happening above the surface is just as, if not more important in regards to Stylus Drag, since I believe the type of cartridge and tonearm pickup used are worth ........hmmmmm..........let's call it 33.333 % each. 8^0

As we know playing vinyl properly requires good setup between the trio of parts.
Cheers Chris

Peterayer, no big surprise. The 30/12 is an amazing turntable. It's degree of isolation is better than any turntable I am aware of. The V12 is IMHO SME's best tonearm. Have you checked your resonance frequency on a test record? The SME is the lightest 12" tonearm I am aware of. It's effective mass is only 12 gms. The Air Tight is almost as stiff as a Koetsu.
My guess is that adding some weight to the head shell might improve your bass a bit. I set mine up for between 8 to 10 Hz. 
Guys, chakster has a very valid point. Speed variation is just not a problem for modern turntables because we can't hear it. This is just a spec war. Same goes for lathes but they have to be a lot more powerful and stable because the cutting head causes way more drag and variation in drag than a stylus running in a groove. The big problem with both lathes and turntables is noise particularly rumble which is not only very audible but you can see it!  Just look at your woofers dancing around wasting amplifier power and Doppler distorting everything else the woofer is doing. All our preamps use to have rumble filters, just high pass filters 3 dB down at 30 Hz. As I have mentioned in previous posts it is not uncommon for a poorly maintained lathe to rumble. I have had several discs that were so annoying I sent them back. The ones I sent back were all 180 gm "Audiophile" pressings and all were Rykodisc. I have many records that rumble a bit but not so bad that I can't listen to them. I have never been bothered by speed variation and none of the audiophiles I know have complained about it. I think that probably only rapid speed changes would be audible but our heavy platters just can't change speed that fast

The 30/12 is an amazing turntable. It’s degree of isolation is better than any turntable I am aware of.

while the passive isolation for the 30/12 from all those rubber bands is relatively effective, it is limited. OTOH the overall build quality of the 30/12 results in top level sound, but the isolation component is relatively pedestrian. i think maybe Peter has his 30/12 on a passive air decoupling Vibra-plane platform to improve isolation. that is degrees better than the stock 30/12 isolation, but still passive.

for ultimate turntable isolation you need to observe how science does isolation. they use active shelves with piezo-electric sensors and actuators in 6 axis’s.

http://www.herzan.com/products/active-vibration-control/ts-series.html

as it comes stock for science this product is not fully ready for high fidelity purposes. it has a SMPS which broadcast’s noise into your signal path, plus it’s limited to effectiveness under 200hz so needs further modification to cover the whole FR. and as it cannot discern the source of resonance it attenuates, only tt’s with very low self resonance work well with it. but properly modified and applied to the right turntable it takes things where no passive isolation approach can follow.

I THINK that some of us are saying this:  Absolute accurate speed is not the issue.  I (and whoever) would agree that I am not able to discern the difference between 33.334 and 33.333.  In fact, I know for sure that I cannot tell 33.333 from a constant 33.5 or from 33.2, because I can do that experiment with the Phoenix Engineering Eagle and Roadrunner driving my Lenco motor.  What IS potentially audible are VARIATIONs in constant speed, drifting of speed during musical passages especially that feature piano and/or stringed instruments.  Whatever technology used in turntable design and build that eliminates or minimizes speed instability (DD, Belt-, or idler-drive) is fine with me.  It just so happens that for me the best vintage Japanese DDs and my Lenco do it at lowest cost or best bang for the buck.  Belt-drives at anywhere near the same cost have failed, speaking for myself.

Mijostyn, Those rumble filters may be useful if you hear rumble, but in all other cases, they are no free lunch.  The filter elements color the sound all the way up the scale, inevitably.  I also don't know where you are getting your LPs from, but I rarely encounter rumble that is problematic enough for me to want to engage a high pass (rumble) filter.  This is using two completely different audio systems in my home environment, driven alternately by 5 different turntables.  I'm not saying "never", but it's rare.