Subwoofer pairing for Sonus Faber Elipsa SE

rdoc,

I'm hesitant to recommend much of anything anymore, but I agree with your statement about REL Carbon Limited subs. I sold a single JL Audio F112 v2 and replaced it with Dual REL Carbon Limited subs. My speakers are Monitor Audio PL500 ii, but the results are the same. They don't draw any attention to themselves, but they add to the overall sound like no other sub I've owned. I don't think they "hit" as hard as JL subs, but in my system they provide more shades of bass. 

Hello doitwithlife,

     I have no doubt that rdoc and ricred1's suggestion of a pair of REL Carbon Limited subs would work great with your speakers but, if a pair of REL S812s at $6K/pair was too expensive, I don't know why they thought a pair of these at $7K/pair are going to be an acceptable option for you.
    In terms of bass quality and bass integration with your main speakers, I can tell you with certainty that a pair of subs will perform twice as well as a single sub and 4 subs will perform about twice as well as a pair of subs.  This is based on scientific research done by PHD acoustic experts, Dr. Earl Geddes and Dr. Floyd Toole among others, and my personal experience over many years of attempting to incorporate subs in my own system.     
     It's useful to consider the number of subs utilized in terms of good, better and best with the quality of the subs employed also being an important contributing factor.  

Good-a single good quality sub is capable of providing good bass response at a specific single listening position if the sub is positioned properly in the room in relation to the listening position.  I recommend using the crawl method (google it) for optimally positioning the sub.  I've found that the quality of the sub is more important when a single sub is used than when multiple subs are used.  

Better-the multiple benefits of using multiple subs first becomes evident with the use of 2 subs. The bass is noticeably, smoother, faster, more detailed, more effortless, more natural and blends better with the main speakers.

Best- the bass benefits of using multiple subs in a given room only increases as more subs are employed up to the scientifically identified optimum threshold number of 4, beyond which additional subs only have smaller and more marginal benefits.  This is why the Audio Kinesis Swarm and Debra distributed bass array (DBA) systems utilize 4 subs.  Using either of these bass systems will outperform any pair of subs available, no matter their quality level or price,  in your room and the total cost is a relative bargain at $3K.  Either system will provide the best quality bass as well as the most seamlessly integrated bass with your Sonus Faber Elipsa SE speakers.

     If $3K exceeds your budget, I'd recommend buying a pair of very good quality SVS SB-1000 subs brand new for $950/pair (on a free in-home trial basis) that would provide very good quality and well integrated bass to your system right away.  Then, if you liked the results, you could add a 2nd pair and create your own custom 4-sub DBA system when you're ready.  Here's a link to the SVS SB-1000 sub:
www.svsound.com/pages/subwoofers#1000-series

Tim

Thanks for all the feedback. Had a huge project here on the ranch that nearly beat me, but its done of now so back to important stuff.


Just finalized an order for a pair of S/812. I'm pretty optimistic they are going to integrate nicely . 

Hello doitwithlife,
     I'm sure you'll be able to get very good results at your listening position by using a pair of S/812 subs if you position each of them optimally, which likely means not just placing them where they're most convenient.
    The goal is to position each at the exact positions in relation to your listening seat that avoids inevitable specific positions in your room that will cause bass peaks, dips or nulls at your listening seat.  This involves using the 'crawl method' and here's exactly how to do this:

1.  Hookup sub#1 and place it at your listening position. 
2.  Set the volume on the sub to about 50%(12 o'clock), the crossover frequency at 40 Hz and the phase control at "0" (in phase).
3.  Play some music with good and repetitive bass. 
4.  Beginning at the front right corner of your room, slowly begin walking, in a counter-clockwise direction around the perimeter of your room, listening carefully for the exact spot that the bass sounds best to you (solid, smooth, detailed, dynamic and natural).  Take your time, listen closely and repeat the process until you're certain of the exact spot the bass sounds best to you.
5.  Once you determine the exact spot, move sub#1 to this exact position.

6.  Hookup sub#2 and place it at your listening position. Set the volume on the sub to about 50%(12 o'clock), the crossover frequency at 40 Hz and the phase control at "0" (in phase).
7. Play some music with good and repetitive bass.    
8. Beginning at sub#1, slowly bcontinue walking, in a counter-clockwise direction around the perimeter of your room, listening carefully for the exact next spot that the bass sounds best to you (solid, smooth, detailed, dynamic and natural). Take your time, listen closely and repeat the process until you're certain of the exact spot the bass sounds best to you.
9. Once you determine the exact spot, move sub#2 to this exact position.
10.  Sit at your listening seat and verify the bass sounds very good to you.  If it does not, you'll need to repeat this procedure beginning at step#1.  If it does, continue to step#11.
11. This step entails fine tuning the settings on the volume, crossover frequency and phase controls to optimize the bass quality and seamless integration with your main speakers.  I set the volume and crossover controls as low as possible with the bass still sounding very good to me and the phase to whatever sounds best, too.  Of course, you're free to set these controls to whatever you prefer.

Tim  

Tim,

Thanks , I've read this elsewhere it will be useful.

I'll be interested to see how the process compares to Rel's placement suggestions. I have a challenging room. I sent them pics, measurements,  and descriptions of my space and gear. The response was pretty specific and referred back to my room attributes.

I'm pretty jazzed to get the new subs in. I started tweaking the settings on the old M&K and trashed my systems voice when I started pushing it. Oh well great expectations moving forward