Subwoofer pairing for Sonus Faber Elipsa SE


Currently have a 20+ year old M&K single VX-1250. It adds a very noticeable difference in fullness but looking upgrading

100% music, no HT

Full PS Audio BHK stack with 300 mono blocks

Already have GIK room treatments for 1st reflection and corner bass traps. My thought was to bring in a pair of matched subs.

Rel recommends a pair of S812's. @ $6k ish for a pair this isn't an option. The older 212 seems like it might actually be a better music only option but a pair isn't affordable. Seems like if I go the Rel route  it would have to be as a single. Maybe a used single G1?

Sumiko S.10 pair seems like a much more cost effective option. A pair is less than a single Rel. I read a lot how it's a variation of the Rel S5 with different cone material. Its unclear to me what the sound difference would be.

Last option is a pair of Syzygy 850. Beefer amp but only 10" compared to the Sumiko. Room correction is the interesting value here. Wondering how much value it adds.

I've ruled out SVS and the JL line is out of budget.  Feels like I have 3 real options

1) A single Rel, perhaps able to find a reference unit used 
2) Pair of Sumiko S.10
3) pair of Syzygy 850 for the room correction 

Thoughts? None of these can be auditioned within 1000 miles so looking to hear from anyone that has 1st hand experience with any of these

Thanks
128x128doitwithlife
Tim,

Thanks , I've read this elsewhere it will be useful.

I'll be interested to see how the process compares to Rel's placement suggestions. I have a challenging room. I sent them pics, measurements,  and descriptions of my space and gear. The response was pretty specific and referred back to my room attributes.

I'm pretty jazzed to get the new subs in. I started tweaking the settings on the old M&K and trashed my systems voice when I started pushing it. Oh well great expectations moving forward 
doitwithlife,
     I thought you considered a pair of REK S/812 subs at over $6K/pair a bit too expensive?  Hopefully, the custom positioning advice they included for the steep price is optimal. If they suggested positioning one or more of their subs should be positioned in a corner of your room, however, it's a good indication they're not actually certain of the optimal positioning for their subs in your specific room. 
     They're likely just guessing and hoping that the increased bass sound pressure level, well known to result from corner placement of one or more subs in any given room, will convince you that their positioning suggestion was a good one.  I recommend you take the time up front to position the subs according to their suggestion first and listen to them critically like that for a few days in your system and room.  Then position them per the procedure I suggested and listen to them critically for a couple more days.  
     This evaluation process will definitely take more time up front.  But I guarantee that the bass reproduced by one of these two different positioning methods will sound significantly better to you.  The bass qualities to listen for and compare are the realism of leading edges on bass notes, the overall bass smoothness, speed, detail, naturalness, ease,dynamics and the realistic decay of bass notes.  You can take notes if you prefer but it'll be obvious that one method sounds significantly better at your listening seat.
     I think you should also consider what Audio Kinesis owner and speaker designer, Duke Lejeune, has stated many times that I know to be true based on personal experience: 
     If the bass from a single properly positioned good quality sub sounds very good in your room, the bass from two properly positioned good quality subs will sound twice as good as one sub and the bass from four properly positioned good quality subs will sound twice as good as two subs. 
     As I mentioned on my first post to your thread, the four sub option refers to the Audio Kinesis Swarm or Debra 4-sub DBA complete kit system or a custom 4-sub DBA system consisting of your choice of subs.  The  Absolute Sound review of the Swarm system, linked to on my first thread post,  is a very accurate description of the exceptionally high quality bass performance level one can expect from this $3K 4-sub DBA system. 
     It's unfortunate that you already committed to spending over $6K on a pair of REL subs since you could have bought a complete AK Swarm or Debra 4-sub DBA system for $3K and saved $3K.  The complete Swarm or Debra systems consists of 4 relatively small subs that are each 14.5"w.5"wx12"dx28"h, weigh 44 pounds, have a 10" long-throw aluminum woofer and includes a 1K watt class AB sub amp/control unit.  
     I'm almost certain that either AK 4-sub DBA system, or any custom 4-sub DBA  system with 4 subs of your choice, would significantly outperform any pair of subs, regardless of quality and price.
     It's definitely a shame you didn't decide to first take advantage of AK's 30-day free in-home trial period, audition this system's near state of the art bass performance and save about $3K. 
      Fortunately however, you will now probably never experience the exceptionally high quality bass response performance level of a 4-sub Swarm or Debra DBA system, fully realize that you purchased an obviously inferior sub system solution instead and paid over double the price for the privilege.  
     I understand that you and others may feel I'm being too blunt, unsympathetic and honest in my assessment but I think it's appropriate given my perception of certainty in the severity of your lack of good judgment on this particular purchasing decision.
     I honestly do want to help you and think I'd be breaking the glass to deploy warning lights right about now if they were available.  I urge you to immediately cancel your order for the two REL S/812 subs and place an order for a complete AK Swarm or Debra 4-sub DBA system on a 30-day in-home trial basis, instead.  It'll be a win-win for you with no downside except maybe a few days delay.  Better bass performance and at least a $3K savings.
     You can thank me later after you fully experience the bass quality and  better understand my advise and urgency.

Tim
I am using dual JLaudio E112 with my Elipsa SE.   though I am still tweaking it and about to order JL CR1 x-over controller.    
Hello antman,

     Two subs properly positioned and configured can provide very good bass at a single designated listening position, but it takes a minimum of three subs positioned in a distributed bass array (DBA) method to provide very good bass throughout the entire room.  The bass will also be faster, smoother, more detailed, more powerful and more dynamic.


Tim 
AntMan

Sounds like a nice fit with the pair if those. I've never heard any of the JL Audio line, but I understand them to be nice performers.

These SEs are so sweet and smooth. What a change we found going from a single older model to a top performing sub pair.

WAF was , her words "wow"

Still tweeking and needing to order a special cable dealie as I have what I'm learning are fully differentially amps. Never knew of such a thing