surprising comparison of tube preamps

So is your point leading to any reason to believe that integrated units have an  advantage?  Any, or would they need to be fully balanced from input to output?

@akgwhiz To the first, perhaps; integrated amps do have the advantage that a passive volume control will work fine in them and there's no interconnect issue between the preamp and power amp sections. But often separates are built to a greater scale with less internal compromises.

To your second question, they don't need to be balanced but it helps, since the power supply is often the key compromise in an integrated amp. Balanced circuits impose less noise on their power supplies.

I followed up the idea in this thread - what happens when a good headphone amp is used as preamp in a speaker system. I have actually not tried this before in my main system. Or not since way back. So I brought Audiotailor Jade OTL down to the main listening room, disconnected the preamp, and connected Jade instead. The result was quite good, but not on the level of my (much more costly) preamp (Einstein The tube mk2). It would have been a sensation if it sounded better.

So my experience is that inserting a good tube preamp into the amplification chain depends on the quality of the rest of the gain stages in the chain. For example, the Jade easily beats small s-state amps in  active speakers, from my testing so far (low to mid price). But if the other gain stages are in fact of comparable or higher quality than the Jade, the effect can be zero, or reversed.

Note that, in my other systems, testing with the OTL headphone amp as part of the sound chain, the chain has been like this:

Source (DAC) - > Jade - > preamp -> amp.

In my main system, however, I had to connect this way;

Source (phono riaa + preamp) - > Jade - > amp.

I was not able to insert Jade as the first gain stage.

Something is wrong when it is connected as the last gain stage. I tap on a tube in Jade and hear scratching noise in the speakers. So the sound impression, described above, may be misleading. Maybe this isn't a fair playground for Jade. Connecting a headphone amp as the last gain stage, with output to the amps, is not the right way. Even if it works fine as the first gain stage.

Exactly my experience too...

Thanks..

So my experience is that inserting a good tube preamp into the amplification chain depends on the quality of the rest of the gain stages in the chain. For example, the Jade easily beats small s-state amps in  active speakers, from my testing so far (low to mid price). But if the other gain stages are in fact of comparable or higher quality than the Jade, the effect can be zero, or reversed

I have a headphone amp that is powerful enough to be a headphone amp or an integrated amp and power speakers. The Woo WA5.