Tables That Feature Bearing Friction

Thanks. Very interesting, indeed. I do recall hearing rumors about La Platine platters "falling down", due to loss of magnetic field strength, but none of my (two) friends who own the table have had that problem. There are a few other brands that now sport magnetic suspensions, but as far as can tell from photos, none of those has magnets of nearly the same size as found even in the current La Platine. Nor are the platters as massive.

As to my knowledge all La Platine Verdier sold after 1995 do already feature the ball supported bearing. So those can't actually "fall down", as the vertical position is already determined by the ball bearing and no longer by magnetic force. The Platine verdier was imported and introduced to the USA fairly late (it was originally a DIY-project presented in french L'Audiophile magazine (with detailed schematics and description how to built) in the late 1970ies and the first offical built retail version was tested in summer 1980 in a german magazine). I do not know, whether there were any Platines delivered to the USA via the offical importer before 1995.

Thanks for qualifying your position, Dertonarm. I understand now that you are referring to a specific approach taken by Verdier. That approach as you have outlined it does seem to be unique, but costly and hard to control from a manufacturer's point of view. As you documented there were other issues with this approach, so perhaps it wasn't all that to begin with. Seemed to be a good idea.

The eddy current breaking is a solid, proven approach. The problem is that it still seems to be beyond the financial means of most of us, so we are left with belts or idlers. To Chris's point, the non-compliant mylar belts and lower torque motors do sound very good. This type of belt along with a decent control mechanism can provide speed stability that is better than most belt drives and I believe it is very close to your average idler. I suspect this is because we are starting with a no-cog DC motor and the mylar provides a much tighter coupling to the platter than any stretchy belt. But that is going off on a different topic.

If nothing else this discussion should show that the designer must take the entire drive chain into consideration, regardless of whether the bearing or motor is chosen first. They still have to work together to produce a speed stable platform.

I agree with you Dan_ed. However - the eddy current brake approach as shown by J.C.Verdier isn't all that costly. All you need are 2 old 15" woofer dirivers magnets which never suffered from shock or extreme low temperature. Thats about all you need to get those 3 features mentioned above all in one.

BTW - idler drive was introduced by and for the broadcast service turntables first. Kind of heir from the days of the grammophone. For good reason. It was of paramount importance that the platter had full 33 1/3 rpm after less than 1/2 turn. You need it for broadcast. For timing the tune played next. When direct drive had grown to full mature (by mid 1970ies the latest) the idler drive TT all vanished from broadcast stations.

Idler drive needs extreme care in execution to supply good results for turntable application. It however always gives some problems as the idler wheel itself is a source of direct noise transmission to the platter.

The idler drive is the direct counter-approach to the belt drive - one favours direct coupling between motor and platter to have very direct and immediate control over speed. The other favours as little influence and as little coupling between motor and platter as possible to minimize any possible vibration and speed shift in the motor being transmitted to the platter.

If the time frame till stable speed is actually reach is of little to no importance, - a very heavy platter coupled by string (= little grip) and driven by a very good motor will give the most stable speed for a turntable. Huge inertia combined with "slip coupling" or a kind of "cumulative coumpond motor drive" (read: very good motor coupled via string to a platter with little grip). If correctly done, it will take fairly long to get to stable speed, but once there, the speed will be extremely constant and little changes in the motor have no effect on the speed of the platter due to the - wanted" slip/low grip of the string.

Of course, this is one of many approaches in today and yesterdays turntable design. It is however the technical engineers approach if absolute stable speed to the prime goal. And if the time taken to reach this stable speed is neglectable.
The whole scenery is worth musing about. However this approach does ask for fairly expensive components (= high quality = expensive motor and very large mass in platter and extremely precise manufacturing and tooling) and huge weight in platter. Nothing that can come cheap.

Dertonarm, the heavy platter, slip coupling approach focuses on only the issue of motor cogging. This approach does not deal with the issue of stylus drag, or any other variability in drag. Contrary to popular beliefs platter mass changes how stylus drag affects speed but does not correct it. A massive platter will reduce the magnitude of the variation but extends it over a longer period of time. A light platter will conversely allow a larger speed variation but it enables more rapid recovery. Heavy vs. light platters exhibit different sounding degradations but they are still degradations.

Intimate coupling of the motor to the platter is the only way to effectively deal with stylus drag. But intimate coupling also makes problems from cogging worse. So in the end a compromise between the two is needed. A DC motor needs less isolation than an AC motor so the compromises will and should be different. Personal preferences also will dictate the ideal compromise. For example idlers with AC motors have poor isolation from cogging, but more intimate coupling. The result is excellent rhythm and timing but finesse and low level detail are sacrificed. Some like the idler compromise and others don't.

If you start with a very low cogging motor then a better compromise can be achieved.