The Horror

@tvad , you are so high strung, with mine is bigger than yours. Wake up a bit. Specifically, I would not be happy with your loudspeakers, and I am not a fan of tube power amps, any tube power amps. Neither do what I want. Are we clear. ymmv. You think I am alone, and you think I am BS. That is fine. I stick to my original comments, before you jumped all over me. Enjoy ! MrD.

@mrdecibel Your series of preceding posts are unfortunate.

No audio shows for me so far this year.  However, last year I attended two high-end audio shows and, I must say, upon returning from each show, when I cranked up my audio system, all I could do is smile.  My awesome audio system, anchored by my good old faithful Revel Salon 2 speakers, never ceases to amaze me.  Happy listening

@ghasley can I hear your words of wisdom as to why you think so?

@mrdecibel …. other than your comments toward @tvad being unkind and completely off topic for the purposes of assisting @audiodidact with his queries, your posts were unecessarily snarky and mean IMO. I’ve admired many of your posts in the past and you are better than that. The Audiogon community is better than that.

Similar, but different situation (as an audio dealer):

Attended a recital of the national champion Polish string quartet.  The acoustics were wonderful in the room, and about 47 seconds into the performance, I hated every speaker we sold.  Began a search the following Monday morning for a speaker that "could get the lower midrange right".

@ghasley I read all his comments in this thread. I have no idea what you are talking about. Not only your description is vague but I cannot find any way to interpret anything he said as mean or snarky. Maybe I am missing something, it was a deleted post?

@ghasley I would 1st like to apologize to you if you felt my words to tvad were cruel, mean, demeaning, whatever. My statement "One problem I see constantly is listeners having the wrong gear for their rooms or their tastes", was not taken well by tvad. He removed his posts, but I can tell you, he was quite defensive about my comment and felt it was directed towards him, on a very personal level. He spoke about impedance matching and other things and said his system would please everyone. I looked at his system and saw a very nice layout. Lovely is the term I used. However, he jumped all over me, calling BS on everything I say and post and I stand behind every word I said. He took offense again, when I stated that his system was likely very matched and brought him much enjoyment, but I would have selected some different components for my pleasure, and this did not sit well with him. I wish he did not remove his posts so everyone could have read them, but I understand why he deleted them. One comment I have stayed true to with every post I make, is this. "Since we are all individuals, each of us enjoy aspects and characteristics of listening that are different from one another and this is ok". I do not believe every system accurately portrays a listening experience to satisfy everyone. Let’s take Tvad’s room (again lovely). If I was designing it "for me", I would have "my particular pair" of Lascalas in there, with a pair of RSL 12S subwoofers flanking them, and a beefy solid state class a power amp (s) that would optimally control the 15s in the doghouses, to my liking... and let her rip. He defended each and every piece of gear he owned, and I simply stated to him, his speakers nor his amps would "do it for me". He went berserk, and before you know it, he removed his posts. He was nasty, childish, and felt I insulted him. I am not someone who insults, but I will defend myself when attacked. He accused me of all sorts of things, and called me all sorts of things, but I remained polite, composed and professional. If you missed tvad’s commentary, you would understand. Anyway, I wish everyone happy listening, as music is a language we shall all enjoy as we see fit. I feel tvad had a bad day, and I understand more than many, the emotional side to our hobby. I wish him, as I do with everyone, my best. Always, MrD.

He spoke about impedance matching and other things and said his system would please everyone.

I did not say my system would please everyone. I wrote my system played all music genres equally well, which was the crux of my comment addressing the idea of systems built to play specific music tastes.

I deleted my posts and was at the door ready to leave permanently, but I cannot, and I will not allow misquotes to stand.

Perhaps there’s a language barrier causing misunderstanding. I will chalk it up to that.

...and called me all sorts of things.

Called you all sorts of things? No. Not once was there any name calling.

This place has gone nuts.

This is my last post. 'Bye. 

@tvad  since I was very sad about attacks against me in this thread, when I came back after a nearly 2 days break, I was again sad to read your personal attacks on @mrdecibel. You may not have literally called him names, but you implied he was ignorant and full of sh%t and a liar (he could not have ever heard your components). If someone wrote those about me, I would have felt deeply insulted. I don't know you nor the other party, I have no reason to upset you. Just for the sake of fairness, this seems a bizarro world now, everything is upside down. 

Thanks for the sentiment everyone, I just miss when we could all kindly agree to disagree. Apologies to the OP as its his thread. Peace to all involved.

I know a couple shops local to me that know how to set up a system from $1000 to $25,000 and have me awe struck by the quality of sound. When yoy go to these shows pay attention to the set up, placement, toe in, treatments, distance from boundaries, listening seat etc. Often as not we can get really close to what we have just by taking the time to understand room and speaker interaction. 

As much as I can appreciate what you're going thru, I don't think it's that bad.

Over the years I've gone ro a few shows, never got home and felt my system lagged too far behind anything I've listened to at those shows. My main system. 

Magnepan 20.1 

Classe CAM350's 

Bottlehead Foreplay 

Rega CD Player 

@audioaddict 

As Morpheus says in the Matrix, “You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland. And I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.” Neo takes the red pill and wakes up in the real world.

Unfortunately, there is no blue pill available, only reds.

I know your whole world has been turned inside out and you are in a maelstrom of self doubt and disillusionment, but do not despair. Time is the great healer and your memories of audio nirvana will fade and harmony will be restored.

But just in case, I think a new set of speakers might be required.

My two cents is that the OP has plenty of fine gear but could probably use to put in substantial efforts to optimize the system:

---Doesn’t look like the speakers are optimally placed. For one thing that is a lot of  toe in for Maggies. They may not be the best match for the room but first try some optimization techniques.

---No subwoofer - a lot of the slam can be had by one, or better 2 to 4, subwoofers. I would recommend a couple of RELs.

---Acoustics don’t look optimized - floor reflections, reflections from that big TV between the speakers, no acoustic treatments.

---Once the room and the system is optimized, only then can you even analyze the synergy between components.

Bottom line...a good sounding system takes work, not money. Just look at the high cost systems at shows, set up hastily in less than optimal rooms, that don’t sound any better than a $800 home system.

It’s a long journey. Spending money can accelerate the process, but also accelerate waste. Take it slow on the money side...tweak, move, listen, repeat.

Hey!

I didn’t read all the posts, but, I don’t need to!

Don’t worry about components and ultimate sound. 
You got Thelonious in your soul- he will take you to the cosmos and beyond. 

Learn to live with what you have.  But really, how much of this uber exotic stuff do they sell?  An acquaintance of mind just recently took possession of a Ypsilon CDT-100 CD player.   They're built to order and took him eight months to receive.  It's nice to look at all that great hardware but does nothing to get newbies interested in audio anymore.  Yes, I dig a top end Esoteric SACD system but am more than happy with their entry player.

@audiodidact I can imagine that horror actually and would be a little afraid to do what you did and commend you on the bravery.  I think I would have waited a little while so the contrast could wear off.  lol  But then there's that little matter of truth, right?  I have a question that I hope you will answer as it relates to the whole law of diminishing returns and super expensive gear.  Which, by the way, yours is compared to mine.  Did you feel like your system sounded great before the show?  I apologize if someone else asked this.  There are a ton of posts on this one.

There’s a saying in photography (I’m a professional photographer):

Amateurs worry about their equipment,

Professionals worry about getting paid,

and Artists worry about the light.

Something very similar seems to apply in the world of “audiophilio” and in this forum:

Amateurs worry about their equipment,

Professionals worry about getting the sale,

and Music Lovers care about the emotional connection with the music.

Good post! Most everyone has experienced this at least once. Many are in clubs and share their listening room because as other have stated, room treatment is the most important thing you can do. You can't overcome it with a brand lol.
I really appreciate that for the most part you stuck to well known brands. If more followed this in their basic system there would be far fewer issues. 

An ARC pre, a class A Pass amp, and B&W, Focal, KEF (even Tekton)... or many others will sound great in most rooms treated and tuned for that system. 

Go crazy with a DAC... Lampizator, Mola Mola, Nagra...

And your TT if you want to put $50K into that. 

I loved the references to F1... Well let's take it down a few notches. Guy's that club race on weekends put all they can into theirs car. But I assure you.. The car is a proven winner. Mustang, Camaro, Porsche... But what they do with the motor and suspension makes or breaks the deal. 

I too own Maggie 1.7i’s, but powered by a Rotel 1090 amp and Musical Fidelity v90 DAC. Mamaw always told me, don’t mess around with audio heroin, there are people out there running with AV receivers and Polk speakers. Be thankful for what you have. We’re here to say it’s OK (well, most of us). Get some sleep, and I promise you the feeling will subside, given you don’t run into stupid money.

You have some excellent components!  I also have Magnepan 1.7i's in my system, and have owned other Maggies over the years.  I totally agree with the folks who indicate that you need to spend time with your setup and room. My system is in a small, dedicated listening room that contains only one chair.  I've always found Maggies to be a "one listener" speaker. I have spent literally years in my room tweaking things as basic as toe-in to optimize image specificity vs. width of soundstage.  An inch or two can make all of the difference with the setup of these speakers.   From your system photos I see some glaring issues.  For example, one of your photos shows a speaker firing directly into the side of your sectional couch with a book shelf adjacent to it piled high with books.  That's gotta be wreaking havoc with what you're receiving from that speaker in your listening position.  The speakers are also very close to reflective walls behind them.  Due to the size of my listening room, I can only have my speakers about 3 feet out from the wall, but have room treatment behind each speaker to compensate for that.  Maggies can be very tricky and frustrating to get properly set up, but when you get it right their magic is intoxicating.  Best of luck!

Yes, today you will need to spend at least $20K on speakers to get large sound like you heard at the show. You can save a bit if you go with professional speakers from brands like Genelec, PMC, ATC, but have to give up nice furniture style appearance, though they commonly come with embedded power amplifiers. For analog electronic I would only choose between two brands: Luxman and Accuphase, and here you can save again buying few years old devices directly from Japan. I am not believer in cables and you will make more difference in sound by adding sound treatment in your room. I never was a fan of Magnepan and did not find even their biggest models sound compelling.

ap1….

I can certainly understand your not appreciating what Maggies can do for your personal listening pleasure. However, when you limit the entire universe of amps to just two brands, and also not hear any differences between cables, it kinda limits the strength of your arguments…  Just hoping that you’re finding pleasure with your rig, as that’s what it’s all about. Happy listening. 

@niskymichael

Accuphase and Luxman are two known brands which make FULL FEATURED control amplifiers. If you play vinyl - better get one WITH tone controls and rumble filter. Power amplifiers field is much broader and there you need to choose what is most compatible with your speakers. Cables do change sound, but I would never choose those which do (other than reducing noise level). I use tone controls, if I need to alter the sound.

@ap1 while you might be trying to be helpful, your advice above ($20k entry point, Luxman or Accuphase) is somewhat narrow and wide of the mark. The OP was seeking help understanding what about his setup was holding him back. Its the room combined with a buffet of gear which either does not have synergy with the room or with the other gear or both.

While there are many great speakers for the arbitrary budget you just established and while both Luxman and Accuphase are fine brands with excellent options in their lines, there are many others here who have heard both extensively and chosen other brands…and vice versa. To the OP, stay the course and address your room and acoustics…only then will you alone know appropriate next steps.

I for one have never gone to one of the big audio shows, probably for the same reason as the poster, I’m sure mt system would be woefully inadequate after hearing the megabuck systems put together by experts.

instead I have over the years put together a decent sounding system, going back to vinyl as my primary source. I still listen to CD’s and streaming but my three turntable, yes three, obsessive but different sounds that I enjoy  from each table, cartridge and phono preamp.

   Trust your ears, use room treatments as they help tremendously and sit down and listen. As others have said your components are ten times better than the Best Buy mass market stuff most people have.

Thank you Ghasley.  I was just about to respond with something very similar. There is so much great gear out there now at varying price points and with different sounds/synergies.  I just think that we should not give folks the impression that they only have a very narrow set of options from which to choose. Listen to that sound in your "mind's ear" that you're trying to obtain, and then go out and listen, listen, listen to various components and setups.  Just keep moving toward that sound.  You'll probably never get there, but you can get close!  :)

I for one have never gone to one of the big audio shows, probably for the same reason as the poster, I’m sure mt system would be woefully inadequate after hearing the megabuck systems put together by experts.

@k600r I look at it quite differently.  Years ago I was at a show and heard a Wilson Audio setup with pricey BAT electronics that sounded really excellent with one of David Wilson’s chosen demo songs (and I wasn’t even a big fan of Wilson speakers back then).  Using that as a sonic benchmark I immediately bought a copy of the same CD to see if my system retained what I heard at that show, and very thankfully it did to a surprising degree.  BUT, if it didn’t I wanted to know that and would’ve immediately started to explore what I needed to address to get closer to that benchmark rather than just settling for what I had.  To be clear, my entire system at the time only cost one third the price of just the Wilson speakers alone I heard that day so the potential solution wouldn’t have required throwing big $$$ at the issue but rather making better individual equipment choices.  My point is that hearing megabuck systems doesn’t need to be self defeating and can be highly instructive in improving your own system within any budget level, it may well just require making some different/better equipment choices.  
 

And while I totally agree that room treatment is very important to getting the best out of any system, in this case I don’t think it’s the fix the OP is looking for.  In the above example the demo system’s room was carefully treated and mine was untreated and I was still able to hear that my system was in well within the ballpark of what I heard with the Wilson system.  Despite whatever room/setup limitations may exist in the OP’s system, the vast difference he’s hearing needs to be addressed largely through different equipment choices to get more what he’s looking for.  Not that treating the room or some repositioning can’t help significantly, but it won’t get him to the promised land in this situation IMO because the differences are just too fundamental and severe.  Even without room treatments and optimal positioning the OP still should be hearing many, if not most, of the positive aspects of the show demo systems if his system was more geared to what he now knows he’s shooting for.  And again, and to avoid potential flames being thrown, I’m not downplaying at all the importance of dealing with room/placement issues, but I highly doubt it’s the solution in this case.  Just my take on it. 

Try comparing what you hear to a live performance in a concert hall or an opera house. You may find it closer to your system than many more expensive systems. 

I heard $50 K speakers that sounded more like an outdoor amplified festival than acoustic music. 

The automotive equivalent of what happens on Audiogon:

Person A: I have a beater Chevy pickup truck, it hauls alot of stuff in the back and does so easily. All I have to do is put gas and oil in it, don’t worry about scratches...it the perfect vehicle. I once tried to haul a bunch of stuff in a $150k Porsche 911 and it just couldn’t do it. The beater Chevy pickup is a better vehicle.

Person B: I have a friend and his cousin’s ex-wife’s sister in law says that her Chevy pickup embarrassed and just laid waste to a $150k Porsche 911. Anyone who spends $150k on a car is wasting every penny they pay above the cost of the Chevy pickup.

Person C: Yeah, I drove a $150k Porsche once on this well graded dirt and rock road and it handled like shyte.

Person D (Amir from ASR): Yep, we measured the Chevy Pickup and indeed it measures bigger and sturdier in all ways vs the $150k Porsche. In addition, everyone on my site has piled on the Porsche owner, which indicates as well that the Porsche owner values the wrong things.

Person E (who happens to apply context, understanding and use cases to the topic): I’m glad you are each happy with your choices.

I'm not one to generally champion room treatments as the panacea of audio appreciation, but about a year ago I put these little things up in the corners and it has truly made a difference in just how much more clear the sound is. Don't know how they work, but they work.

@audiodidact 

I couldn’t disagree with your premise more. You don’t mention anything about room treatments so I’m guessing that your room has more influence on your sound than your system. Maggies can be rather low bass shy so you may want to consider adding a decent sub like a Rythmik or SVS along with an active crossover. There are many ways to get a great sounding system without getting crazy expensive.

Old guy advice: Spend your money going to live performances. LA Phil, Hollywood Bowl. Your local dive bar that has musicians play. I'm sure your system is better than you think but at the end of the day, no matter how much you spend it is a "representation" of the actual music. Sometimes we think it is better than real because we can tailor it to what we like. I think I'll leave that up to Dudamel, he knows what he is doing.

@jji666 I agree.  I began my higher end audio system at 13 with a Sony TC366 tape recorder.  Through the years, I accumulated and replaced equipment without regard to room acoustics until my late 30s.  Then I decided to concentrate on at least making the listening room amenable to my speakers.  I then constructed a listening room at 37 using isolation first and then vibration control (big dedicated room 25X23X11.5 w/8X6 rear room closet equipment area.  At 63, I moved and spent $150K on a custom listening room using some concepts by J.Gordon Holt. I was so successful that my previous speaker's, though inadequate in a smaller room, still was quite acceptable for narrow listening.  I replaced my listening room speakers with a pair of Legacy Signature IIIs I purchased in 2003 for $1600.  They sounded excellent for all genres of music with lower powered tube amps and a nice tube pre-amp.  Buying quality older functioning equipment can render a smaller budget GREAT returns.  I was last using a Topping D70s DAC until I could afford my end game system (that is expensive). 

The reason for my dissatisfaction but still enjoying the music produced by my equipment is that I am both a part time singer, recording engineer and have a very good ear for sound.  I have been and am two composer's recorded music archivist.  Now, my audio system rivals live music, often in superior sound.  I still attend many live acoustic music performances as the live event can be exhilarating.  

I have heard many Maggie ribbon speakers.  They tend to sound best with smaller, less complex and dynamic music with a demand for high power amps.   There are alternative ribbon and planar speakers very superior but at a high cost such as Alysvox and Clarisys.  So, if you want a better sound, first look at your listening environment/speaker set-up, then to find matching equipment.  Cabling is an issue with much equipment benefitting from minimally expensive Blue Jeans/Belden cable.  First get the room and equipment coordinated, then ancillary equipment. 

There have been a couple of references to Vandersteens being at T.H.E. Show this year but there were none on display. Maybe you are confusing them for another brand. I know Alma had the Boenicke in one room and YG Acoustics in the room next door.

Coming up on 10 years now......not a single rig or anything at any show has blown my stuff out of the water. In fact, I start laughing at the flaccidity of how million dollar rigs have sounded.

It is your rigid belief systems (purity, depriving yourself of necessary tools, brand fanboyism, spending up the wrong tree, etc) that will keep you disgruntled forever. Ya gotta have a malleable, adaptive mind.

@deep_333 

He never said that he was a fanboy of any particular brand.

@ghasley Thank you very much for the laugh 

@audiodidact - have you recovered yet?  Maybe listen to lo-fi for awhile before returning to your rig.  Hope you don't need the suicide prevention line

That’s interesting OP and unfortunate.

Over the years, I’ve observed the experience for most audiophiles attending shows is actually the opposite of yours. Most of us go, perhaps expect to be blown away by something, A lot of surprisingly unimpressive sound, And come home to fire up the system Thinking “ You know my system actually sounds really good

Attending the show.  I’m glad I own it.”

Enjoy what you have. Life is far too short to live by “what ifs”, “ I want that instead” or “what does it take to get this other thing”. Think about it, it is only a stereo. Perspective is everything. Take a look at this guy and see what he is doing with music.https://www.wane.com/news/local-news/ukrainian-musician-now-defending-kiev-has-ties-to-sweetwater/amp/

I ask myself if my life is so terrible, my country is not entangled in a war and I have a great place to listen to music… in peace.

@2psyop  Amen to your words.