Thiel death do we part . . .


OK, stupid title, I know...but so is my question, probably. So in spite of years of owning lots of different gear - speakers (Maggies, B&W), preamps (Bottlehead,AR), amps (C&J, Bryston) and so on, I've never quite got "the magic" I often hear about. I sort of went the path of least resistance and settled on a small setup - Theil(1.6s) & Bryston(B60) with Rega front ends (analog & digital).

The other night, however, I set it up in a near field format for the first time. After playing with speaker placement a bit, everything suddenly snapped into place, and it all sounds amazing. Magic. I found myself digging into my record collection (maybe 4000 deep) for the 1st in years and now there's not enough hours in the day to listen to it all.

One thing I've noticed is that the system is just brutal with poorly recorded media. While well produced material (Patricia Barber, Cowboy Junkies, some Rickie Lee Jones, Stan Getz and so on) can be just stunning, detailed, spacious and even deep, lots of others just aren't pleasant to listen to. Things I used to enjoy can now sound lame and muffled. I understand this may be a Thiel "take no prisoners" issue. So, just as an experiment, I swapped out the Thiels for a pair of old B&W 802s that are passing thru on the way to eBay and was surprised that while good material sounds adequate, bad material doesn't sound too bad...at least not embarrassing.

So the question is, without swapping nice speakers for not as nice on a regular basis, is there something that I can do to get the set up to be more "forgiving", at times? I listen mostly to what you might call intimate music, small groups and individual singers, often in live recordings.

Listening area is 12x18 with a low ceiling (open joists) off a corridor.

So maybe alternate cables (Zu Julian now) or a subwoofer or an equalizer? Thanks for your patience.
dancub
Ditch the blue point special. Try a denon dl103r.

I ran a blue point for years, it is likely a big limiting factor as you describe.
Hummm, another set of thought provoking suggestions. Just got the set up back together so will try out tweaking the speaker locations first and report back.

I would look at a new cartridge (Onhwy61 & Mapman thx) but the issue I'm chasing now lives in CDs as well as vinyl - but I do know my vinyl chain is weak (great link Onhwy61).

I'll pull together a list of "sounds great" & "sounds crappy" to try to make my point. That will take a few days . . . but a terrific idea.
Mapman is right about the Blue Point being coarse and not as musical as it could be. Try a new Ortofon Red or Blue at least. Other modern carts are good, such as those from Denon, Dynavector, and Goldring, but these Ortofons and the latest cartridges from SoundSmith are really musical designs, with lively dynamics, great separation, proper tone balance, and are happy in most tonearms.

Too bad Thiel's new designer is blowing off the concept of 'time-coherence' as a design goal.

Best,
Roy
BLue point cart is one of the few pieces I have owned over the years that in retrospect I would label as clearly "midfi", ie limited potential to help deliver top notch sound.

I owned BLue Point and not the "special" which is reputed to be better, but I would still be leery.

Plus with old phono gear, it can be hard to discern that everything is working optimally as it should and needs to (for good results) still over time. BEtter to start with a new cart that is more certain to be operating properly and be sure.

Denon 103R is a slam dunk to end the cart search for most as long as phono pre-amp is up to the low output and tonearm is medium to high mass.
I often use poor recordings to let me know if I am on the wrong track. Sure- excellent recordings should sound amazing. Its the poor ones that tell me whether the system is editorializing or not.

I regard a lot of the editorial as possibly being artifact in the playback chain that is exacerbated by artifact in the recording. If I can get the system to be OK with bad recordings it will sound even better with the good recordings.

The trick is to get the equipment to unperturbed by the signal. To this end I work with tubes as I have not had good success with transistors.

FWIW I'm not a fan of the Rega arms I have seen. The ones I have seen did not have provisions for allowing the cartridge to be setup correctly. If the cartridge can't be set up right, don't expect the LPs to play without issues! VTA is one issue, the other is proper overhang. If you can get these two variables right, you are a long way towards getting the cartridge to track. Another really important variable in the setup is the effective mass of the arm/cartridge combination. If not right (must interact with the cartridge compliance such that the resulting resonant frequency falls between 7 and 12 Hz...) the cartridge can easily mistrack. If you hear any mistracking the setup has a serious problem!

Some speakers have significant lobes in the tweeter response. This means how toed-in (or lack of toe-in) can really change the experience.

There are tons of variables! Don't give- make it fun rather than work :)