Verdier Upgrade Kit

Hi Marco,
my story is surely not meant to compare my kit with the exquisite Connaiseur amplifiers. here as well many interpretations are possible.
the tenor of it was to show that the reaction of 'Dertonarm' is maybe imaginable but not based on any experience with my kit. (never seen it)
it is wise to base judgements and opinions on experience not just looking at a picture and make up things.
his reaction tells me more about him than it judges my kit.
maybe you can agree to some point with that, maybe not, it's a free country.

Yes most experience better performance with a different motor. no they are not fools. did i say that?
thank you for valueing my kit. it has taken years on thinking and labour to finally get it right and look good.

i will take space here to share my experiences.
sure hope it doesn't get controversial, as i love the Platine like any other Platine owner.
as my white papers have already told i think that the Platine is a miraculous concept. (remember it is from 1977 or around) that any TT can span such a lifetime in basically the same outfit is more than a class act by itself, not much TT around who can follow that.
the Platine has never been an ultimately luxury TT as others are and although it can be set up quite easily with some understanding, there is fair gains in performance to be made with some more research and understanding.
i find it a real pity to see enthusiast Platine buyers in the first place, and see them sell their Platine within reasonable short time to find 'better' TT elsewhere.
the more pity it is to find reviews at the WWW stating that the Platine does 'bad' bass, has 'bad' timing etc. some reviews make really funny claims.
i went through some time with my example, and had to think about the design and concept too. (btw i come from a background in aircraft mechanics and engineering) so thru the years many experiences came my way too just by spinning records in a levitated way that is:-)

the DC operation is great and this mod can be easily done by some DIY work, or you can buy a luxurious battery pack from GT audio or others. recommended.

the rubber grommets which keep the stock motor in it's housing will loosen up fairly quick and need a small modification with some Teflon washers.
if those grommets loose up the motor will start to wander and cause severe vibration. any vibration just there is disastrous to speed and PRAT.

then there is the stock linen thread which is a less bad choice opposed to the stock rubber o-ring.
i used any imaginable thread as well, but the behaviours are all more or less the same. they stretch with varying temperature / moisture and the knot alone causes speed bumps.
it collects dust quickly and the drive pinion starts to build up dirt in it's V.
any deviation at that point magnifies at the other side: the platter. and it magnifies again 1000x at the needle.

so is the thread a 'bad' thing? i think it is a less good choice to drive any TT.
BUT.
more happenings into play for the total experience.
the Platine is a spring suspended TT.
it has pneumatic damping too and that is a fine concept in itself.
the 16 Kg platter in itself lies above the spring suspension. here it get's interesting and at the same time unstable mechanically.
the thread has many disadvantages in first place, and together with the spring suspension and the 16Kg quite a distance above the suspension things get 'alive'.
any loosening up of the thread or any speed bumps or any devation here will be multiplied by the spring suspension coming into resonance because of this.
this resonance may be 5 hertz or less.
so it is two unlucky things adding up, and if using the thread one can find himself fiddling again and again and still notice unstability. (those piano notes !)

so when reading at the WWW that some owners have 'thrown away' their stock motors because they are 'bad' and cause bad things to happen many Platine owners go that route soon and report that now that they have a different motor all is good. and that is a fact indeed. (it is not that the motor is so much better than the stock one, it is the tape drive which has zero flex and gives waaay less room for resonance of the complete TT..)
if the Platine is fixed at it's base the hassle -ie resonance- with the thread is actually solved for the biggest part. the thread still is no good choice because of the aforementioned aspects which stay.
if any owner would experiment with a solid base (which is easy tweak to try out) it would give much better insight to what causes and what happens.

the stock Verdier 0-ring is industrial rubber not intended to drive TT platters.
my kit has a specially made o-ring which has behaviours that overcome just these problems.
with fixing the Platine base the rubber 0-ring is a superb way of driving the platter and has great results as to timing and stability.
as these are magnified x1000 at the point of the needle it is easy imagineable what this does to PRAT.
that's why i state and humbly claim that it sounds like a direct drive now.

if any tekst is asked on the ball and spindle thing i'm obliged to sharing my thoughts on this as well.
the same as for any highend rig it is all the components which make the result. we never listen to speakers or amplifiers alone. it is the sum of it all.
the same accounts for the Platine TT.
it is not just the thread or just the motor.
there is a mechanically and acoustically dance taking place which is quite complex.
with my kit i adress many things and offer solutions.
feel free to try out some solutions i offer, there is nothing sacred about my kit and the things it does.

and pls try to take nothing too personally :-)
i'm the last one who would call a fellow Platine owner OR any audiophile a fool.

will put my reaction to Mr Carr under this.

cheers;

Mr. Carr,

thank you for your reaction, inspiring to meet you here in a virtual way :-)
i think we share the same sort of inspiration and motivation.
as said it was not my intention to directly compare your work with mine, but show my own interpretations.
are the Connoisseur amplifiers rather called 'Connoisseur Definitions' or Lyra Connoisseur? (i'm sorry to see i mis-spelled Connaisseur)

i have a burning question left after the midday of setting up a full Brinkmann Balance TT at my friends place where i met the 4,2 combo for the very first time.
the Brinkmann cartridge has an ideal impedance of around 600 ohms as recommended by the factory.
the 4.2 phono offers 10K in a fixed way it seems.
i'm personally a firm advocate of loading down any MC to an optimal value. i know there is a trend towards 'open' -47K- loading.

is there any way to alter the 10K load inside?
we experienced still a somewat hyped up high frequencies and the bass could use some control too.
a typical impedance loading as i see it but pls advise.

again thank you for meeting here, and i'm curious if any poweramp will be accomplished in the future by Connaisseur design team.
i'm very inspired by the DartZeel designers on my turn.
that is breaking concept technology.

sorry for offtopic.
cheers;

Hi Tuboo,

The concept of the magnetic platter is that it would float free from the plinth of the TT with the only point of contact at the spindle. A part of your mod kit addresses problems that arises at this point of contact. Correct?

The opposing magnets will always be parallel to each other. As long as the plinth is level, then the platter should be level. The thread/o-ring imposes a lateral force on the platter which will disrupt the stablity of the magnetic platter. And part of your mod addresses the o'ring and the spindle problems. Correct?

Excuse my non-technical discription. But I just want to get a general sense of what you are trying to do. Because as you have said the concept of the Platine is brilliant. So much so, that a non-techie like me could grasp, appriciate, and 'buy' the concept at once.

How did you experiment while coming up with all the mods? I can't imagine you taking a part several Platines.

Again, thank you for your commnets.

Hello Ledoux,

thank you for your genuine interest in the matter.
The Platine is indeed very interesting from an mechanically / acoustically point of view. the idea is utter simple and so brilliant. the paperclip as an invention scores highest.

the levitated platter can be done via opposed magnets or an aircushion. there was an TT (can't remember which make) who achieved just that by having a bath of quicksilver in which the platter floated. it had three motors to centre the platter.
nice idea too, but living with a couple of litres quicksilver in your living room is a very bad idea! it is very toxic matter.

yes in theory all will be parallel, base and platter.
we have to count in the machining tolerances*. i level my own Platine with a very accurate digital leveller but thats more due to the Kuzma Airline which needs extremely precise levelling and need of beeing exactly parallel with the platter. (boy did i spend time here to get that)

yes indeed the thread (or any drive) will impose instability and will impose a very low frequency resonance at the springs suspension.
the TT iself by its big mass is a very non-resonant beeing.
as said any mass above a spring suspension is instable, and vice versa.
with any TT the resonance or any deviation in speed etc will be magnified at the needle, and again magnified by amplification and speakers. so we have a perfect laboratorium to listen to anything bad happening at the beginning.
that's why it is so obvious that when discarding the thread drive (with a 'better' motor or whatever) everybody reports on having much better performance.
as said the impression is so strong that the stock motor gets the full blame in some cases. "throw it away !"

any Platine owner using the stock thread can very easily try out the 'solid base' experiment. put three wooden blocks or whatever under the Platine base and listen to what happens before and after.
with such sensitive arms like the Schroder or even the Airline it get's even more magnified.
such an experiment will give great insight, and will inspire to further investigate and maybe put a reply here :-)

the stock motor with this setup (and preferably with the special rubber o-ring) will give a speed accuracy and evenness that is beyond remarkeable.
i remember the moment that the most important mods got together and i re-discovered my own Platine yet again.
that moment i knew i was onto something.
i will take more -and hopefully better- pictures of the kit in which any Platine owner can get a better clue.

* with the stock Platine bearing and spindle i've measured 7/100th to 1/10th of a millimetre axial play at the perimeter (unevenness) and with my new bearing and spindle i measured 5/100th to 7/100th. this is done by further minimising tolerances at the bearing. if the tolerances between spindle and platter could be minimised too that figure would maybe drop (guess) to a 4/100th mm. with these tolerances different oil comes into play, thats why the VDH oil.

exciting message: i scored another 28 pristine Vinyl ECM titles at Ebay.. sooo many records soo little time.

i will take more -and hopefully better- pictures of the kit in which any Platine owner can get a better clue.

Hi Tuboo,

Yes you should take better photos and make a better presentation to the audiophile public of your mod.

I am reminded of the new Wilson Audio marketing compaign for its speaker. While you could hardly 'see' anything, and certainly hear nothing, the responses have been more woo's and ah's. Now that's marketing for you.