Village Vanguard session with Bill Evans

Ghosthouse, I think the use of space can be very moving and sometimes less is indeed more. Some people like Count Basie made a living out of it. Others (Pops) used the implication of notes ( not playing them but playing in a way where one expects to hear certain notes ) and then used these 'implied notes' as part of the melody he was playing. This use of space and compactness of playing, this level of virtuosity may indeed be objectively said to be of the highest level. What I found "curious' was to take only one aspect of expression ( space or perhaps compactness- often a Milesian attribute) and try to use it as a some sort of standard upon which to objectively judge the quality of another recording. What makes great music IMHO is it's ability to go beyond the here and now and to offer a transcendent experience to the listener. Each of us has a unique experience we bring with us each time we listen to music or view great art. That's why something might be so obviously magical to me but not to you and vice versa. I don't get a lot of modern art when I go to an art museum but the guy next to me might be in tears. His view and the view of the painters align so that he sees 'through' the painting to its greater meaning which alludes me. Is it great art or great music ? I say yes if it allows a way, if we can but see/hear it, to a deeper meaning which is ordinarily unavailable to us. - Jim

Aldavis - Well said! Especially regarding "transcendence" but the potentially subjective nature of that experience is more fodder for discussion! If you "get it" and I don't...is it great art for you but not for me? Doesn't great art rise above the invidual experience? There must be some objective elements that allow great art to survive over time, changes in culture, modes of thinking etc. I'm not sure what role for the subjective expericence. I think it must play a part - but what weight to give it? I do agree economy can't be the only element defining great art or great music (I didn't intend to imply that). Look at architecture in a Rococco or Baroque style vs some modern minimalist construct. Each has something wonderful about it. Good point also to raise Miles' complaint to Coltrane. In a Coltrane bio I started reading, he's reported to have said, "...why do you have to play so long?" (or words to that effect). When I first read that, I thought it was an ego thing on Miles part about time in the spotlight...in this context now, I'm thinking Coltrane's approach violated (maybe too strong a word) Miles' own sensibility. One more thing I'll add about what defines great art is, "Time". The passage of time is like some erosive process...some stuff gets washed away. Other things remain like bedrock revealed. Setting aside the perhaps distoring effects of commercial interests, we want to listen to Bill Evans and many others decades and centuries after the fact because they tapped into something enduring. Transcendent? yes, I think so too.

Hi Ghosthouse, thank you for sharing my thoughts. First I would like to say that I personally think the Village Vanguard sessions are quite extraordinary and beautiful. I started this thread because I would like to know from you (fellow music lovers) what is in your opinion the ultimate reason why this particular recording is so "great". Today I heard the slow part (Largo) from J.S. Bach's third Sonata for unaccompanied violin. If you know this piece, you'll understand what I am trying to say. I'm not saying that Bill or Miles play few notes: they play as much notes as necessary, not more, not less, and each of those notes has it's own unique place within the structure of the music. That is what I call "Zenlike", because (forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm not an expert in this field) the Zen philosophy is about the "essence" of things. This essence can be found in the Village Vanguard sessions, but also in Picasso's Guernica, Miles Kind of Blue, Mozart's Don Giovanni, Bach's Sonata for unaccompanied violin, Charles Eames' Lounge Chair, Rubik's Cube, the classic Mercedes-Benz "Gullwing" model, etc.

Chris

Ghosthouse, I don't know to what extent subjectivism is important. It's probably pretty rare when something resonates with everyones conscienceness at the same and in the some way. I don't believe that art is purely objective and that all we need to do is refine our tastes. There are many truths and many pathways which will be apparent to some but not to others as a function of their state of being and not necessarily their taste. This is subjective to the extent that certain vision requires certain life insight which may not be taught in art/music school. - Jim

Dazzdax, Aldavis -
I wish you a Happy New Year...
Here is a link to a series of videos with Bill Evans discussing his art.

The first link (#1 of 5) will take you to the site with various other segments and contains remarks pertinent to Aldavis' comments.

See also the 4:33 clip (there are 2 with the same title), Bill Evans - The Creative Process and Self-teaching. I found this discussion meaningful in terms of Dazzdax points about the relevance of economy to the creative process.

Hope you enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm6V7bWnVpw&feature=related

PS -
This site also contains an 8:22 interview with the producer of the Village Vanguard recording that started this thread.