Update: Pro-Ject - VC-S2 cleaning machine is here and after cleaning 15 records, I am giving this machine a very enthusiastic thumbs up. The supplied ‘Wash It’ concentrated fluid leaves no residue and quick to dry. In less than 90 seconds you have a clean record to play. The cleaning process is not as simple as dropping the record into the slot as some of the UC machines with 4 figures price tag but I found the process with VC-S2 pretty straightforward. It’s definitely a far cry from spin-clean record washer (also brought in for comparison). To be completely honest, I kinda enjoyed the process with VC-S2. You start off by clamping the record between the two plates, start the motor running and pour a little bit of diluted cleaning fluid onto the grooves, spreading it evenly with supplied goat hair brush before turning the vacuum arm into place, switching on the vacuum suction to suck up the dirty cleaning fluid. The vacuum leaves the record completely dry, while the waterproof padding underneath the clamp ensures that the record label is protected throughout the process. The bottom clamp size is exactly the same size of the record label so you’re not transferring the dirt onto side A when you flip the record to clean side B. It’s currently on sale for $649 and free shipping, in case anyone interested. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084KJQ6QT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1Thank you everyone for your suggestions. |
Why not just get a simple record DR RCM....it essentially does the exact same thing all the other more expensive ones do. It simply vacuums out of the grooves your choice of record cleaning fluid, nothing more nothing less. Vacuuming is vacuuming. Yea, u will have to turn record manually, but is that really that big a deal? Short of going the ultrasonic route, I’d say this Is the best option that leaves money on the table to acquire more records. Just to add, the velvet lips are there to create a seal for the vacuum, the real deep cleaning occurrs during the spreading of the cleaner with maybe a high quality goat hair record brush. |
^^^^Just watch the video, thanks but no. This is no different than spin-clean which cost $79.99. This is a classic example of you get what you pay for :-) |
For all VPI record cleaner owners, the 2" clamping knob is such a great item. Luxurious to use and makes the process seem less of a hassle. |
mijostyn - I've always been told to keep the dustcover off while playing albums. As a matter of fact, the newer Rega P8 and P10 models can't play with the covers on. I noticed on my old P5, it sounded better with the dust cover removed while playing records.
latik - As far as the mat question, I had a static problem with the standard Rega felt mat, was told the TEAC washi mat ($30) would solve the problem (supposedly the paper with the very slight cushion below it is optimal sounding) but it didn't work as the mat kept coming up with the record just like the Rega mat. The dealer who sold me it swears by it on 3 tables he uses, but I guess he doesn't have a static problem. And he wouldn't take it back, which is BS.
Saw some chatter about Herbie's Audio Lab Way Excellent II mat here on the Gon. It is a silicon layer on top of some other layer. It completely solved my problem for $60 and you can talk to Herbie himself down in Texas. I honestly don't know if it sounds better than the Rega mat or the Washi, but it solved my problem.
Like a lot of other tweaks you hear about, sometimes I think it is all in your head. You can spend as much as $650 for a mat (maybe more), which I guess is OK if you have a $10K+ rig, but I can't beleive any sound improvement, if real, is worth it. Others are $100 or more that I think would work as well. Funk Firm is 5 mm for the good mat, which is too thick for a Rega table without spacers.
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@sokogear,
I no longer have an issue with static. My new TT (SME Model 15A) platter has this very unique coating that prevents static buildup and firmly dampens the record to the platter. And, the TT also includes a very high quality record weight (clamp).
It’s really nice when manufacturer include certain ‘options’ that elevates your listening experience. |
Vacuum cleaner machine and Zerostat gun and end of problems
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I recently tried some PEEK film w/ adhesive backing ( .0002" thick) on the metal plate of the VPI dual pivot upgrade. Big positive upgrade! Increased quiet, clarity and definition.
If anyone is interested, PM me, I’ll send a pre-cut piece for $10.00 mailed. |
https://thevinylpress.com/an-experiment-with-platter-mats-the-mymat/ |
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" https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/3a845718-89e8-411d-a8e7-dc34a1492785/downloads/SP-7000-8000%20Speci..." This product had me scratching my head, trying to figure out what the heck it is? So, when you're not playing the actual record, you put in on this thing.....okay. Kudos to that company for designing something and creating a need for something....needless! Why not just put the record in its sleeve? Not bashing, just puzzled. From the website: "Engineered
with military precision, this object with a very cleaner design quickly becomes
essential for any vinyl user." ESSENTIAL? They're joking, right? LMAO Whatever it costs, that could potentially be applied to a better record pressing. |
If anyone is interested in a elegant record brush that is a far cry from cheap plastic ones sold everywhere, then ramar got a brush for you. I just took my delivery after waiting for two months (long wait caused by Covid-19). The brush features six double rows of carbon fibres and two rows of goat hair assembled in a elaborate handwork. After dozen cleanups, the brush has excellent dust absorption and offers effective dissipation of electrostatic charge. There is more, you also get a stylus cleaning brush and special glove made of soft micropolyester and polyamide for cleaning the dirty record brush. Each brush comes with a serial number registered to original owner. This allows lifetime support as well replacement / repair of fibers if needed. https://ramar.berlin/en/ |
OP
please see my recent post re:Tru-Sweep |
My opinion for record cleaning machines is that they are useful if you buy a lot of used dirty records. I try to keep mine pristine and only use a carbon fiber brush to remove dust. Most of my records are new, and if I get a used one it is NM or forget it. You can't clean scratches.
I actually was thinking about getting one and did a test of a 40 year old record that was not cleaned (other than the brush) and after cleaning it on a VPI record cleaning machine, I heard no difference. Tried it on a 2nd album, same result.
A great device that doesn't affect the sound (unless it is mounted on the plinth), is a Tru Lift from the same Integrity hifi people up in Canada. It simply lifts the arm at the end of a record so you don't have to worry about excess cartridge wear if you can't get right to the table when the record is done playing. You don't hear much about these, but I wish I had one 20 years ago when I realized how much better manual tables were than semi or fully automatic ones.
The price starts around $200 and varies by the table you are using it on because the height of the device varies that effects the amount of stainless steel they use. They're not cheap, but they are built very solid. Only sold through dealers, but I've spoken to them when I had a question setting it up and subsequently when it tilted over and didn't work because I needed to add damping fluid. They even had a video for how to do that! Great little company.
If you happen to have a Rega P8 or P10, these things are unbelievably great because they don't touch the plinth at all. They sit on the same platform that the table sits on and come through the brace that connects the arm to the platter. An absolute no brainer.
They also have an interesting tonearm that is totally separate from the plinth. It's a little out of my price range, but at $4K, it's worth a look if you're considering over $5-$6K for a rig.They claim it outperforms anything out there and makes reasonable priced cartridges sound fantastic. One again only through dealers who will help set it up. |
Soko, do you really think your N=2 experiment with the vpi RCM proves anything at all?
even mint condition used LPs can have a lot of dirt and dust on them, which can be efficiently removed by a good RCM. If I ever doubt that fact, all I need to do is look at the effluent from my VPIHW 17 RCM. It’s filthy. |
Agree with @lewm ...even the new LP’s have dust particles. Most of the LP’s are shipped in cheap paper sleeves. Remember, Vinyl manufacturing plants are nowhere near the standards of CDC Labs :-)
I have gotten into the ritual of cleaning new LP’s on my Pro-Ject - VC-S2 ALU RCM and then inserting them into MoFi static free sleeves. |
My fiber brush removes dust. I clean that off every time before I play a record. I clean the record mat when any dust is visible. I am sure that there are records dirty enough that the oil from fingerprints affects the sound. Mine aren't. Most audiophile records I get come in nicer, non paper sleeves (although I make sure they are at least rice paper quality or I put a Mofi sleeve on them).You don't need a record cleaning machine to remove dust. Fiber brush removes it magnetically and physically.
I used to use a discwasher (way back in the 80's) system and was told by several people not to put any liquid on the brush (that would then be moved to the record). Like I said, in my limited test (it may have been 3 records), I couldn't hear any difference. I am not saying they couldn't be sparkly cleaner, just that I couldn't hear a difference. Maybe I'm not as sensitive or maybe I had negative bias towards it, but even the salesman said he couldn't hear any improvement. The people that have the cleaners don't seem to use them that much because most of their records look spotless. They use them when they buy used ones in EX and below condition.
I think cleaning new records is excessive. Not harmful, but unnecessary.
Try testing it some time. Just my $.02.
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Soko, Fiber brush cannot hope to remove grunge imbedded in the grooves. Even a pristine-looking LP will yield "dirt" when properly cleaned. Your brush is unlikely to get below the lands, and if it does, only minimally. And please describe how a fiber brush removes dirt "magnetically". That's a new one on me. This is coming from someone who is not at all fanatical about LP cleaning, but it's just a fact of vinyl life. Yes, in some cases, you won't hear much difference between unwashed and post-wash. In other cases, you definitely will.
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I agree lewm. It can't remove grunge. However, if a record is not fingerprinted and kept in a rice paper sleeve other than when being played and has the dust removed each time, inside a record jacket (or sometimes 2) inside an outer plastic sleeve inside a sealed glass cabinet door, how does it get grungy? I am meticulous in handling and storing my records. The brush magnetically removes dust I guess because of the static charges that makes the dust stick to the fibers and it sweeps larger particles and hairs. I'm sure it doesn't remove deep dirt. I've lived with the risk of a sound difference for 40 years, and I don't see it changing. There is so much difference from record to record in SQ, that it is really hard to tell as you play different records if one would need cleaning beyond the dusting before every play.
I think I bought 2 EX records and was not comfortable with them one time and brought them to my brother in-law's (not a special trip) and I cleaned them. He has some expensive VPI machine I think. It vacuums and brushes and everything. It was more time consuming than I thought, and I am wondering how he keeps track of when he cleaned which records. He doesn't even have them situated perfectly vertically as I do. Another thing to keep track of and worry about if they always look shiny and clean....
They were still EX records though. That's when I said NM or Mint (which is really new but opened and never played I guess) only if not available new.
Obviously if you are an avid buyer (or seller) of used records a RCM is a must have.
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sokogearMy
opinion for record cleaning machines is that they are useful if you buy
a lot of used dirty records. I try to keep mine pristine and only use a
carbon fiber brush to remove dust ... Your LPs aren't pristine if all you use is a carbon brush to clean them. If you want proof, just look at the gunk that's accumulating on your stylus.
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I guess pristine is the wrong word to use @cleeds. If I wanted perfect, I'd have to deep clean them every time I play them.
Life is full of compromises.....let's just call them excellent. |
Compromise is right. The cleanest records I know are the Hot Stampers from Better-Records.com they are cleaned using the Walker Enzyme 4 step method on a very expensive RCM that uses a cleaning wand that continually feeds fresh cleaning thread so all dirt is continually lifted off the record. This eliminates the major problem with all other RCM designs which is that the cleaning brush is always building up crud, ultimately smearing it all over the supposedly clean records.
Granted the crud we are talking about is not visible. But totally invisible crud does make a difference! My records scrubbed with Disc Doctor looked really clean. Same records after same cleaning process only with Walker Enzyme sound better. Not night and day, but definitely better. Not necessarily more quiet, but more fine detail.
The downside is the VPI RCM is only used to suck off the final rinses. Because otherwise, crud smear. So a very laborious process, a good 3 min per record, almost all hand labor.
But, I didn't have to spend $4k on the fancy RCM. Compromise.
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@millercarbon - we are in agreement on this issue! Better Records should have the best record cleaning process. It’s central to what they do. They charge much more than I’d pay for any record, but I can see them succeeding in the cost no object market.
Funny thing is, not only does my brother in law with the expensive RCM have his records shelved erratically from a perfect 90 degrees to 45 degrees, which gives me high anxiety, he doesn’t even use a brush to get rid of dust before playing a record. I think he only uses his RCM when he buys a used record. His system is probably 3-4 times as expensive as mine and he doesn’t even use a power conditioner! He put his stereo on a dedicated circuit. I tried to explain how the power company feeds noisy juice, but he thinks power conditioners limit the dynamics of amps.....
He’s had problems with hums and tubes, you name it, but he won’t put the PC in.
The worst part is that I started him down the rabbit hole when I recommended a $500 manual Music Hall table 20 years ago when I was amazed at the improvement over my old fully automatic Phase Linear 8000 and he started getting upgradeitis ever since. He took my advice then, but now gets victimized by stereo salesman after stereo salesman. Oh well.... |
I have not bought anything from a stereo salesman, not since Jafco, 1974.
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