Vinyl / High qual analog tape / High-res digital -- One of these is not like the other
One common theme I read on forums here and elsewhere is the view by many that there is a pecking order in quality:
Top - High Quality Analog TapeNext - VinylBottom - Digital
I will go out on a limb and say that most, probably approaching almost all those making the claim have never heard a really good analog tape machine and high resolution digital side by side, and have certainly never heard what comes out the other end when it goes to vinyl, i.e. heard the tape/file that went to the cutter, then compared that to the resultant record?
High quality analog tape and high quality digital sound very similar. Add a bit of hiss (noise) to digital, and it would be very difficult to tell which is which. It is not digital, especially high resolution digital that is the outlier, it is vinyl. It is different from the other two. Perhaps if more people actually experienced this, they would have a different approach to analog/vinyl?
This post has nothing to do with personal taste. If you prefer vinyl, then stick with it and enjoy it. There are reasons why the analog processing that occurs in the vinyl "process" can result in a sound that pleases someone. However, knowledge is good, and if you are set in your ways, you may be preventing the next leap.
Dear @mikelavigne : I own the original RR-25 LP ( Not the 45rpm. ) and is as you said really good but I don't own the CD version so time to listen to it. Thank's.
As a fact I own all the original RR LPs and I think I own the Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances in CD version too that I don't listened by a lot of years now. Other RR CD I own is one that Johnson sayid was recorded: D2D and maybe I own 2-3 more RR CDs but I'm not sure.
I really appreciated your recomendations about because at the end it does not matters the recording medium but the performance it self and its quality levels of those recordings.
Dear @mikelavigne In this an other threads you posted that as there are several LPs that outperform the digital version there are too some digital recordings that beats the analog/LP versions.
Could you at least give to us 2-3 digital recordings that beats LPs version? Thank's in advance and appreciated.
You should have learned by now that honorable retreat is better than dishonorable defeat. You need to know when to stop.
For example, roberttdid did make a very clear mistake, got "caught", acknowledged it was a mistake and that he was incorrect, and saved his face. He did not claim it was a Nigerian hacker who got into his account and falsely wrote whatever there was.
Trying to ridicule others while you are obviously making the facts up is finally a joke you have not been looking for. It is ok, you can use my lines any time you want, but stay polite. By the way, I was serious about that money you should be getting back from your school. It was not even a joke.
Fortunately Wikipedia has a lot of science stuff that everyone’s favorite wiki scientist, roberttdid, roberttcan, whoever can pretend to know. He just can’t remember what thread he’s supposed to be on or who he’s talking to, that’s all. I don’t have to squeeze his head any more, it comes out of his mouth all by itself now. Plooooop!
Well, now when you added that part about small fee and other non-sense, you should be ashamed to have no jokes of your own and steal others’. You do grab a number of my ideas and present them as yours, which would be fine if you did not poach them and then insult me.
Get yourself your own jokes, like others do. It is sad to watch you steal and pretend it was yours. Shame on you. I know you are envious, but have some face.
Pretty cute but that’s been my standard comeback for ten years. You could say it’s protected. Get your own material! You can use my line for a small fee, that’s the best I can do.
Stop creeping me out. You obviously have deep personality problems. My advice to you is seek professional help. Do it ASAP. And stop stalking me. You are an example,of what happens when you sit in front of an oscilloscope for too long. Before you know it your brain turns to pablum.
A few days ago I looked my my "Related to you" posts summary. The last word in the first seven entries was by no one other than our illustrious Mr. Pebbles. However, upon inspection, I had posted in 6 of those 7 threads before Mr. Pebbles. You doth protest to much Mr. Pebbles, for the stalker is thee. It would be interesting if you had something remotely worthy of a reasoned response every once in a while, but alas, all I have to look forward to are attempts at pithy ad-homs. How droll (and predictable).
No point in looking at the rankings for post-graduate with you as you never made it past under-grad. I believe you were the butt of a joke in Big-Bang-Theory once.
It appears you’re the one who’s triggered, Mr. Smarty Pants, you’re stalking me so much your nose is probably brown. If I can make a suggestion, go back to whatever backwater school you went to and demand your money back.
You are cute when you are triggered. It is easy to tell, your language will become more and more on the vulgar side. You like to dish it out, but you don't take it too well. Isn't that the sign of an insecure bully?
geoffkait23,260 posts07-06-2020 2:40pmStuck
in the 80s? Looking in the mirror again, eh, Mr. Know-it-all? I am from
the future, but sadly for you it’s not your future because you don’t
listen to your superiors. You only run your mouth. That’s why you can’t
progress past the newbie stage. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a
reason. roberttdid same jackass as roberttcan.
Dear @roberttdid : "
I think I will order it as well,...."
I bougth it not because I need it ( I own to many LPs. ) but to compare it with some of my best quality level performance LPs.
As I said most of the time I listened to LP, rigth from start I'm accustomed to the LP kind of sound.
No I do not buy the digital version, really don't care about.
I like some Original Motion Picture kind of music that normally were recorded digital ( CDs. ) and only when appears the LP version I bougth in the two mediums. Till today and even that the LP versions are " audiophile " kind/type of LPs no one beats ( yet. ) to the original digital recording.
The whole concept of "K2" is stuck in the 80's sort of like Mr. Pebbles. This is a completely meaningless concept within any modern studio or playback system ... and not even really "modern". Note they are "recording engineers", so not really "Engineers" w.r.t. having a proper understanding of the underlying technology. Most recording engineers have shockingly little understanding of the underlying technology they are working with.
Development History of K2
The development of K2 was started in response to calls from
recording engineers in Victor Studio. They objected to the common idea
that there was absolutely no change in sound quality no matter how many
times the original data was copied when the music media is transferred
from analog records across to digital CDs. Because digitalizing sound is
encoded in combinations of zeros and ones. Although no changes occur in
theory, the studio engineers claimed that there was a clear difference
between the sound quality of the original master and the copied
sub-master. So the engineers at JVCKENWOOD set about to clarify the
reason for this. Subsequently, it was discovered that although the
digital data was exactly the same, electrical distortion (jitter,
rippling), etc. occurred when the data was being recorded and saved,
which had an adverse effect when converting music played back in digital
into analog, thereby proving that changes did occur in sound quality.
An attempt by the two engineers to improve the changes in sound quality
that occurred at this time led to the original version of K2, which was
named the “K2 Interface.”
I ordered Dameronia with Strings on XRCD24 Directly recorded to half-inch analog tape • Mastered Using K2 Technology! • Mastered by Tohru Kotetsu at JVC Mastering Studio in Japan I'll see if I can tell a difference to Flac 44.1 on Quboz.
I bought orange vinyl and when I sent that link to mikelavigne before my purchase he said it was the same record that he has (number, I guess). He did not comment on the color, though. In any case, the orange one sounds just fine to me, but do not tell geoffkait. He will recommend you paint it green. At the same time, I do recommend you play it in clockwise fashion. It is, in fact, directional.
this record only was pressed in the orange vinyl to my knowledge. in any case it sounds superb.
i have 2 copies; one that i got in a box set directly from Turkey, and another from Acoustic Sounds as a back up.
on another forum one member is a local Turkish friend of Ferit Odman;
i might actually be able to acquire a copy of the master tape of this recording.
I wonder if people would be interested in a r2r edition of Dameronia with strings. He has the master tape. If enough people is commited, I can convince him for a limited run.
here is where it gets interesting to compare the source tape, the vinyl and a digital transfer. then a few get an ’ah ha’ moment. done it many times. i compare vinyl and the digital every day for years. don’t always pull out the tape.
You’ll never believe what happened. I bought some of the original Mercury Living Presence recordings on cassette. For example Suppe Overtures with Paray and Detroit, also Saint-Seans Symphony No. 3 Organ also with Paray and Detroit. Absolutely better dynamics than CD, maybe on par with the record and better tonality than CD. Also listened to Fennell and Eastman Wind Ensemble - Ruffles and Flourishes. Sweet! These tapes exhibit tremendous fullness and speed in the lower and upper bass.
I bought orange vinyl and when I sent that link to mikelavigne before my purchase he said it was the same record that he has (number, I guess). He did not comment on the color, though. In any case, the orange one sounds just fine to me, but do not tell geoffkait. He will recommend you paint it green. At the same time, I do recommend you play it in clockwise fashion. It is, in fact, directional.
No worries glupson, if a few of us have it in analog, it will be something to discuss. I am always interested in the state of the art, no matter the media.
On another topic, it seems a certain pseudo scientist likes to dish it out, but doesn't like the taste when he is fed it. Do you think he is triggered by my posts that reference actual science related to audio? Maybe? To this day I have yet to see a piece of electronic equipment that used magic pebbles for emi shielding.
"I think I will order it as well, even to provide a common reference for discussions."
Guys, do not blame me later if it is not what you expect. I am not claiming it is superior in any way to anything else. I do claim it seems like a good recording to me.
On the other hand, it is recent, it is purely analog, and it seems that they did try to make it as good as it gets at this point. So, maybe it is worth being an analog reference.
This is what happens sometimes when your friend and humble narrator comes back here from the future trying help out fellow audiophiles. I get stoned and crucified by knuckle dragging mossbacks on some weird mission to make everyone as ignorant as they are. New pseudo scientist, same as the old pseudo scientist. 🎶
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
