VTF and VTA- Constant or not?

What's your best, quickest method to prove that VTF and VTA/SRA have been set up correctly or close to ideal?

"Prove"? Hmmm, I doubt the concept of proof is practical in this context. One could prove these things with lab equipment and a frequency analyzer, but since the optimum settings vary with each record you'd spend your whole life proving and no time listening.

That said, my partner and I are pickier than many, even amongst A'goners. Here's what we do:
1. We know our rig and system's sound really well. We understand what each adjustment does (at the stylus/groovewall level) and precisely how it effects the sound.
2. We listen to music we enjoy, alot.
3. We adjust while listening to optimize the sonic performance of each parameter.
4. The only "proof" we require is that instruments and voices sound as real as possible. (We once fussed with electronic measurements to optimize azimuth, but found we could adjust by ear as accurately and faster.)

One or both of us generally knows after a few seconds of listening which adjustments are out of whack and what direction they need to go. That comes from experience, there's no shortcut for trained ears (though research and guidance is helpful of course).

What tools do you need to have in measurements?

For VTF
We tweak VTF every single day, sometimes even for different LP's, but for that our only tool is our ears. A scale is only useful when you set up a cartridge and occasionally if the suspension relaxes so that a different VTF base point needs to be identified. I haven't unpacked ours in months.

For VTA (SRA actually, VTA is a misnomer)
1. My eyeballs, to level the cartridge (just a rough starting point, which is all we need initially for the reasons Stanwal explained; since very LP is different, there's little point obsessing over the initial setting IMO)
2. My ears. (We adjust SRA for each record. No exceptions. Most others do less, to each his own.)
3. Post-it notes and a pencil. (To record arm height settings on each LP jacket so we can quickly dial in for replays.)
Thanks to good record-keeping this actually takes very little time, and no playing time is lost since we adjust SRA on the fly.

Is it possible to have them "set and forget"(i.e. constant)?

Is it possible? Of course. Is it optimal. No.

If you value set and forget and also value optimal performance, go to live concerts or play from digital sources. Reproduction from vinyl records is too complex and the components involved (including the media itself) contain too many variables for set and forget to be optimal. Your choice.

If not, how frequent will you have your routine checking with the carts you have come across?

In our case, with every LP as I said. This has been so with every cartridge we've used, but we don't "check" our setups by dragging out a scale, a magnifier or other tools. We play music and adjust as required. I don't need a scale or a magnifier to know when my cartridge's VTF or SRA is optimal. The sonics tell me.

Doug

P.S. In 2004 I understood very little of this. It took about 3 years to get reasonably competent.

Hi, Doug,

The only "proof" we require is that instruments and voices sound as real as possible.

Very good point. We can only be sure when a piano sounds like a piano, a cymbal sounds like a cymbal, and vocals sounds like somebody is singing live in front of you. Our musical perception should be established with our experience with live (esp.classical) concerts with mainly acoustic instruments, instead of based upon someone's top-notch audio system. Live performance always come first, audio system second or third. Life without live (concerts) could be a big mistake for any serious audiophile.

If you value set and forget and also value optimal performance, go to live concerts or play from digital sources.

The digital sources that could satisfy me are far too expensive than the vinyl setup!!! It seems I have to at least spend 3-5 times more...Esoteric? No way! dCS? Maybe...sorry, I'd rather buy an Audi A4 Quattro S-tronics and a couple of nice MC carts;)

Is ZYX UNIverse really that good, Doug? So many A'goners have one or two in their system. Is the Copper version(ending with "-X") the best? I just saw your article on fine-tuning ZYX's cart. It is really interesting...

Dan

Doug,
What would happen to the data on your post-it notes if you changed arm, cartridge, or table?
This thought has always kept me from adopting a similar system.

Cheers.

Tom

It's unlikely any "topnotch" audio system could come close to live, acoustic instruments, so I agree that would be a poor yardstick. I haven't personally heard any digital that matches our vinyl, though to be fair our vinyl front end cost more than those digital rigs you mentioned. There's no way to do what you described on the cheap. :-(

To our ears the UNIverse is still the most invisible cartridge we've never heard, though also the most finicky. It will play like a Strad, but only if you know how to let it. Its sweet spots are 10X smaller than any other cartridge I've used and the falloff in performance is rapid if you miss anything. If you want fun, this is it. ;-)

We haven't heard all the contenders of course, but we've not heard more lifelike reproduction from any other cart. See the review by my signature, several years old but we wouldn't change much if anything, except to add to the list of carts that can't touch it. Too bad it's discontinued and the remaining stock dwindling. Transfiguration Orpheus LO and Dyna XV-1S are pretty good too, and more easily available.

The copper coil, low output version is definitely the UNIverse to have (true of any ZYX). Other versions give up speed and dynamics or impose a Koetsu-like smoothation on the music, and we don't want to hear that. If I hear a component altering waveforms then it's unacceptable no matter how "musical" somebody thinks it sounds.

Similarly, fellow A'goner Mothra once said our preamp (which he now also has) is the only preamp he's never heard. That was lofty praise from a professional recording engineer and musician who's owned 20+ other good preamps and dumped them all. He defined what we're after in every component: nothing. So did the preamp's designer, Nick Doshi, whose signature phrase is "Enjoy music, tolerate equipment". Not bad for an engineer!

We're also classical listeners. Our acid test recordings are mostly our 100's of original/authentic instrument LP's by the likes of Hogwood, Harnoncourt, Scimone, etc. Harnoncourt's 70 LP survey of the Bach cantatas is particularly unforgiving of system eccentricities. Those records go from a glorious and intimate humanity to fingernails-on-slate in a heartbeat if a system isn't just right. They've embarassed some very pricey components visiting our home. I played one in another guy's system just once. He said it was the worst recording he'd ever heard. Little does he know that his system, which cost 3X what ours does, is just screwed up. ;-)

Doug

Dougdeacon already covered the set-up details extensively, but let me add that the correct VTF in a given cartridge defines the correct position of the cantilever (= the coils in the magnetic field) towards the magnet(s) and that the correct SRA/VTA is always a matter of the position of the polished area of the stylus towards the grooved wall.
That means ultimately that the VTA/SRA has to be groove-compliant - its a direct result of the cutting angle of the respective record. So it should be set with each record independently.
Painstaking sometimes.