Warm, Smooth yet Transparent Amp


Hello All,
I am currently running an Arcam AVR300 for movies and music, 60/40 respectively. The music portion just isn't happening. Everything works but I'm not getting that "involved/pull you in" kind of feeling. I have gone through several pairs of speakers, Proac tablette 50, Triangle Titus 202, Von Schweikert VR1s and currently Vandersteen 1C. Since this is a wide array of speakers, I've come to the conclusion it must be the amplification.

So now I'm thinking of adding a 2 channel amp running out of the front channels "out". I don't like harsh, shrill highs, but rather a fuller, sweet sounding, yet transparent. Is this possible without spending several thousands of dollars? I am trying to keep it under 1200.00 so used but quality is what I'm hoping for. If Possible. I know that all of you knowledgeable people would have an answer.

I'm also running an Oppo 83 blu ray/cd. Dish K722 receiver for TV. Listen to FM, CDs and MP3 through the Oppo. I'm looking for all the things I have read about on these forums over the years. Good Imaging, transparency, involving. I've read good things about Conrad Johnson MF2250 (affordable used) and I just missed out on one on Ebay, earlier today. Now I'm just frustrated I guess.

Please assist if you can. Oh, I like folk rock, rock, certain new age kind of music. Examples, Dave Matthews, Eric Clapton, Sarah McLaughlin, and everything in between, *chuckle*. Any and All suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Bruce
denon53
John,
What makes you think that using the tape output to tape input work? I mean, it makes sense. I'm currently using the "tape in" on the Arcam for the input of my Sony HD FM tuner. It works great and allows "stereo direct". It sounds pretty good to me. My DVD/CD player is an Oppo bdp83. I use the digital output for 5.1 and a separate two channel output for stereo music. The best of both worlds. :)

Bruce
Bruce, if I’m reading these posts correctly (label me “Mark on the slow”), what you’re intending to do can work as long as you know to wire the Oppo and Dish once to the new pre for 2 ch. listening and a second time to the existing receiver for surround sound.

Understand though that a tube preamp through a line level input or tape in on the receiver will attenuate the source twice and the volume controls may end up in the least linear part of their ranges. There may be a sonic impact to this, but I guess you can try it.

If you’re looking for some “tube magic”, given your existing set up and budget, I still think that adding an amp will provide the biggest bang for the buck, and in your case adding a tube amp will provide better results than adding a tube preamp.

Good luck,
Mark
Hi Mark,
Yes, if I go this route, I would be wiring 2 channel into the preamp and all digital sources would connect to the digital inputs on the receiver via fiber cables. But the preamp would have to possess a "tape monitor" out which the CJ Classic does not. From what is on agon at this moment, it would have to cost much more than my budget. I was hoping to keep it at $1,000.
Your suggestion about a tube amp is what I was thinking about last night. It would make life so much easier and hopefully cheaper. :)

Any suggestions on a decent tube amp under a grand? Used of course.

Thanks,
Bruce
At the risk of being called some kind of heretic, I'll make a suggestion of my own. I've been unhappy with my 2 channel system, swapping out components, all to no avail. I acquired some Paradigm Signature S6 in '09 and had been trying to build a system around them. It was tough, they are forward sounding with that beryllium tweeter.

I tried an Adcom system first, nice but the pre was flaky and would send loud bursts through the system at random. Then I heard about Emotiva and the price was sure right. Bought an XPA amp, ERC-1 cd player and an Anthem TLP-1. I found the TLP to be laid way back and soulless. Replaced it with an Emotiva XDA-1. Now things were too bright with my speakers, and still no soul or synergy/magic. Swapped in an old Denon ave(3803) I had to confirm, it was warmer but no synergy.

Thought I could do better with a disc player and replaced the ERC-1 with an Oppo 95. Better, but still lifeless. I would get sibilance at higher volumes with some tracks(actual distortion in the highs). Decided to dump the Emotiva amp and got a Parasound A21. Big improvement in sound, now I could see what I'd been missing. Sibilance was gone, very nice vocals and tighter/more accurate bass. But still no holographic sound stage, or 3D stage.

Got the XDA-1 out of the system, and plugged the Oppo straight into the amp. Better, but I experienced some volume limitations which made me want a dedicated pre. Got a NAD C372(integrated from 6 years ago) and used it as a pre. Better volume interaction, but still no soundstage magic. I got tired of swapping components, and was ready to throw in the towel, maybe i was just not spending enough and I'm not prepared to spend 2-3000 per component just to get some magic in the sound.

Then I was reading and this poster I trust on another forum mentioned to someone else how changing his speaker cables to Audioquest Type 4 had made a significant improvement, and he now swore by them. I did some research, and found results and mockery all over the net. Zeroed in on the Type 4 and found it's a solid core wire design with bigger gauge for the bass and smaller for the highs woven in a type of litz design with some other design specifics. I tried them, replacing some 12 gauge fine stranded OFC wire.

The difference was immediate and not subtle. It was like the music was somewhat out of focus before, not that i'd noticed it. But there was also more detail. And this sharpened up the soundstage. I could now localize instruments much better and even some on the left side of the left speaker, meaning I guess that the soundstage widened. It was an eye opener for me.

Mind you, I had better than run of the mill IC's that I'd acquired along the way, not sure if they helped. Bottom line, with all of the component changing you are doing, I haven't heard anyone mention if the cables might have a part to play. I'd humbly suggest buying some Audioquest Type 4 if you've never tried speaker cable upgrades. You can get in on the cheap, buying it by the foot at some of the on line dealers.

Might save you some green over more component upgrades.
Runnin,
Thanks for the input. I was running AQ type 4 from the beginning, when I first purchased my Arcam back in 2006. I used them up until about 5 months ago when I changed over to Canare 4s11. They seem a bit more mellow than the AQ.

I really think that going to tubes is the next logical move, whether it be a tube preamp or tube amp is still up in the air. Which is where I started. :) Has anyone heard or had any experience with Cary Rocket 88 amp? It's within my price point.