What are we objectivists missing?


I have been following (with much amusement) various threads about cables and tweaks where some claim "game changing improvements" and other claim "no difference".  My take is that if you can hear a difference, there must be some difference.  If a device or cable or whatever measures exactly the same it should sound exactly the same.  So what are your opinions on what those differences might be and what are we NOT measuring that would define those differences?

jtucker

It is the difference between what you ACTUALLY hear and what you THINK you hear.

Interesting statement.

What does it mean to actually hear something I don’t think I hear?

My dad has macular degeneration.

If I hold up an envelope to him and say, "What return address do you see, Dad", he will say, "It’s all a blur."

If I then add, "Ok, now what do you think you see, Dad?" He’ll say, "It’s all a blur."

If I then ask him, what’s the difference between what you actually see and what you think you see, he’ll say, "Please stop."

He really sees the blur he thinks he sees. I really see the address that I think I see. If I put it under a microscope, I would really see the pixels I think I see.

There is no independent access to "reality." There are just different components in different complex systems of experience. 

Reality is a word that does no work. 

Subjective claims are null and void for everyone but the one making them. In order to show that the subjective claim has any relevance  beyond that it needs to be verified. This is true for things besides audio as well. I can claim a teapot is orbiting Mars, that I have seen it, but until such time it can be verified this claim is only true for me. This isnt some wild radical notion it's true for all human experiences the idea some ignore it for audio, to claim audio is different is depressing in a way.

The point of blind testing isn't to claim someone is delusional. All humans have biases, the only way to eliminate bias and continue the investigation into why something sounds different is by testing the claim. 

All humans have biases

100% true. But, this works both ways. For the "objectivists" too

Subjective claims are null and void for everyone but the one making them

The emphasis is mine on the quoted phrase. Again, I don’t think people are making claims. Instead, they are sharing their impressions. It’s a public forum. Meaning people gather, talk to each other, share what they like and don’t like, sharing their experiences. If you don’t like what people share, ignore them. Let the people who enjoy the discussion with each other be. As easy as that. Go by whatever fits your bill, including the measurements you take yourself or read on the internet from a measurement guru of your preference.

 

It is simple:

Subjectivist sometimes dont learn how to listen by themselves, and this is acoustic science training by the way... they trust more the branded name of the gear they bought than their ears training ...They train their ears distinguishing amplifiers marketed sounds qualities 😁😊

Objectivist are worst, they trust their measuring tools  ONLY...Or they trust  misapplied very limited blind test which are an  industrial methodological statistical tool not a tool for learning concrete acoustic ...

None of them most of the time learn with their EARS acoustic concrete science in listening experiments...

Solving equations of acoustic is not enough in applied acoustic of complex small room by the way...Acoustic like medecine is an art based on science...