What I wish I knew before starting my audiophile journey

From the time I bought my first receiver in 1977 until now I have been driven to improve upon my stereo sound system but it wasn't a constant or consistent endeavor.  I might go a few years between upgrades because I was either satisfied with the sound or caught up in work, cars, or by the mid 80s home theater.   Not every change turned out for the better.  I tried melding home theater with hifi.  That lasted about two years around 1990.  I built a dedicated listening room in late 1994 including acoustic sound absorbing panels.  I applied my NVH knowledge from working in the auto industry.  The sound was killer.  That was probably my peak in sound quality until just the last few years- and a whole lot less money in gear.  I bought my first Sota turntable in late 1992.  The sound blew me away.  That drove me to build the room but not spend more on gear.  Interesting looking back how I went that route.  It was out of necessity with a 2nd baby on the way.  Unfortunately, I got to enjoy that room for only about 2 years until I relocated.

My stereo was my stress relief at the end of the day.  The music lets me relax and just focus on the sound, the words and the instruments.  But once I heard a distortion, or an edge in the highs, anything  like that would start to annoy me and the problem would grow in my head until I had to do something about it.  So instead of stress relief it would become a stress point.  I would either stop listening for a while or start hunting for a new piece of gear.

Once I had the perfect system.  I enjoyed it thoroughly and immensely.  That lasted several years.  Even a hifi buddy advised me not to change a thing.  But no matter, I got the bug in me to change things up.  New speakers lead to a new amp.  New amp lead to new cables.  New cables lead to a new preamp.  New preamp lead to a new amp.  New amp lead to new speakers.  Thousands of dollars and a couple of years later I felt like I was back to the sound I had with my system before I started making changes.  It was a bitter lesson, but like a typical man, even knowing I made a wrong turn I refuse to turn back.  (I have literally turned back while driving just two or three times in my life.  One of them was in Prague.  No street signs, confusing roads.  Never did find my hotel.  Found my way to the airport, turned in the rental car and took a taxi to the hotel.  Man oh man, once the taxi got me there I realized that I had never even gotten close.)

So a few years ago as I was about to retire I made revamping my stereo system one of my projects.  The other projects, of course were updates and upgrades to the house as hopefully this will be my final home.  I relocated a lot over my career.  So I visited some good ole stereo shops, Axpona and read and read online.   My stereo project replaced my career basically these past couple of years.  That includes building some of my own tweaks and racks in my shop.  After putting in all of the effort and spending a fortune, I can say that I have exceeded my peak sound that I achieved in 1994.  And yes, I have done much work to my listening room here including GIK panels, a new floor and other acoustic treatments.  Not to mention- two dedicated circuits with hifi outlets and lots of spring based isolation.

My conclusion is that the room is the single most critical component.  The stereo system can make up for room deficiencies but it can get costly.  A stiff floor is critical as well as absorbing the bass reflections in the corners.  Next are stiff walls and ceiling to eliminate what I might call ghosting.  I'm thinking about secondary reflections from the walls, floor and ceiling as they vibrate from the sound.  Too much absorption kills the sound.  I learned that in 1994.  So don't overdo it with the sound absorbing panels.

I am reminded of a story:  In the early 1990s I got to visit the echoic chamber inside the Chrysler Tech Center.  It was a very large room with all walls and ceiling a few degrees off square.  The center of the room had a chassis rolls and at that moment a Chrysler minivan was under test in the room.  This room had hard surfaces.  Even a whisper echoed around the room for several seconds.  One had to be very careful in this room if not wearing ear protection.  Even a handclap could become thunderously painful.  My point is:  be mindful of making a room off square.  (I'm not talking about a vaulted ceiling as that can be a benefit.)  The sound in the room needs an exit.  The exit can be as simple as an open door.

OP you're doing it just fine, and I did it similarly. Starting (or re-starting) my music and HiFi hobby in 2019, and especially during Covid and with a young family, I was able to buy or try and experiment with a bunch of used gear up and down the chain in my system along with the help of a friend in the hobby who lent me things to try/compare. I agree, the differences are apparent quickly between pieces. 

I too had a budget, and whenever it was time to upgrade something, sold stuff and fully paid for the next piece. I bought quality stuff, not top-shelf, and it all sold for equal or more than I paid ...and taught me a ton. Also, a savvy shopper can find remarkable deals if they know what they're looking for when it comes to components, cables or anything. The gap between the retail price and what I've paid for my gear is huge.

Keep on keepin' on! 

PS: Just winding down a forty year career in marketing communications, I’ve had the good fortune to promote many successful outdoor events including large music festivals, motorsports, international whitewater championships and indoor sports and concerts…so my affection for pro audio production probably is not the typical audiophile focus, but you gotta love classic road gear, LOL.

Interesting thoughts on % investment here. Current mid-fi rig with very enjoyable performance. Vintage solid state pro audio power and wide baffle box speakers are my “hobby within a hobby” can ya tell :)

Wharfedale Linton 85 Heritage speakers $1200 Open Box

REL T5i Sub - $500

Recapped/serviced 1984 Crown PS-200 Amp - $500

Auris WiFi Streamer/DAC - $200

Mogami 3103 Speaker Cables ~ $90

Schiit SYS Unpowered Preamp Switch w/ Pot - $50

Monoprice RCA/1/4” Jack Interconnects - $50

I confess to being a bargain hunter with a high snake oil aversion, but the info here is extremely informed and many of my choices for systems I maintain for our home and our kid’s homes benefit,

@musicaddict +1 on both your posts above

… so I understand the $/sound quality improvement.       

@ghcprentice, that was what I wanted to say exactly, and that's what I pay for.

I hear far more with a $ speaker change than for an amp change. That's me. That's my ears. I think diminishing returns hits electronics faster than speakers.

When I was serious, over months I had a dozen pre-amps in my home for audition in the late 90s when you could to that. And, although subtle, I did hear differences, and more so in power amps, less so in better digital gear.

And so, I always spent my money cautiously (keeping gear for years until upgrades) and just where the most audible improvement occurred. That wasn't $5k speaker cables for me. I just want the best overall sound for the $ donated. :-)

I feel luck in that nothing huge comes to mind. Maybe it's because I'm cautious.

@curtdr  you just made the observation I was thinking of sharing for days.

After 45 years, I know what I can audibly discern and know what I am paying for in this 'general' order:  critically first is speakers, power amplifiers/pre, then source components although if analog, cartridges are important.

When I started, late 70's college, one norm was 50% speakers and cartridge, 50% turntable/arm and receiver/integrated. Well thought out in my mind.

Understanding the sound of all types of speaker technologies is smart. Once you know what you enjoy, find a few of the best sounding brands (to you). and work on acquiring a great model. if you're looking high-end, think used as they're taken care of, and the drop from retail is amazing on high end (e.g.: my used Raidhos).

With speaker sound, brand, and model done, I'd tailor the system components to complement it. Do not be afraid of some quality DSP room correction fixing your bass and room if it is in a true 'living area' and not sequestered in a cave (no cave for me). Decent cabling makes sense, outrageous cabling is for folk with no sense. (They think they hear 'something else' and that's nice at what they spend, $$$   :-)

(If you're wealthy and cannot make up your mind and exchange gear for fun, this advice wouldn't be for you.     Some of us are budgets, small or large, and still want to maximize the end result, not take losses on constant switching around 'in search of something greener'.)

@jusfre

Good question.

My first direct line was put in when the average value of my components was ~$5K. It had a pretty big impact. More than a great interconnect.  What makes it hard to access is that the more expensive the components invest more money is in power management of each component. So, each component becomes more sensitive because of its high quality and less sensitive because of more sophisticated power management at the same time.

My current average component cost is now $20K. I recently added a separate direct line for my power amp. My feeling was that the incremental increase in sound quality was $5K… the cost was $1.2K. Helping me to calibrate, I recently had swapped power cords and interconnects… so I understand the $/sound quality improvement.

I think with less costly components… the gain could be even more. Since the components have invested less in power management.

@antialiased 

"An interesting observation I've made is that the older audiophiles tend to focus on things lower in the chain, like speakers and amps.

The digital generation values and focuses on cleaning up the source and thinks that makes more of a difference in their setup."

Maybe the "older" audiophiles have been around the block and know a thing or two about proper - or at least best bang for buck - priorities?  There is that possibility.

@dman1974 : Good post. Thanks for sharing. Enjoy the music, the gear, and most importantly, the journey. Life is short

@jimmyblues 

"Ironically, after all these years my hearing is not what it used to be and I listen less critically now, and simply enjoy the music itself.

The high end gear is long gone, yet I have settled with some nice components that faithfully honor the music without breaking the bank."

2 simple sentences that speak volumes.

@jgandy +1

"I have always been audiophile atheist regarding wires, power conditioning, audiophile magazines (although I have subscribed to both since their inception), and  most of the myriad other ancillary devices marketed to the audiophile."

right... such things might be tiny tweaks, though I too am an educated skeptic...,

but the bang for the buck is proper speaker-amp-room synthesis

Just think, Had you done your Homework you would have learned-wisdom and understanding-...Most of those issues are available...price to spending.... Knowledge in = quality out.. IMHO

I have had dedicated power to my stereo system since 1989.  Every house I have bought since I have taken the trouble to run a dedicated line to my stereo but I didn’t add a dedicated line to my current house until I retired a couple of years ago since it was the most difficult to do of all of my houses.  It is worth the trouble.  First of all, a dedicated breaker and power line reduces voltage sag- ie, drops in voltage as the line is loaded down.  I consider a stable voltage source a big deal for good sound.  Second, it reduces but does not eliminate electrical noise from other sources inside the house.  There is no single silver bullet that fixes all electrical noise for a stereo system.  Each step taken removes a small amount of noise and grunge that affects S/N as in background noise, improves clarity and makes the highs sound sweeter.  It nearly killed me to spend what I did on a power conditioner but it works.  It adds to the improved clarity and sweeter highs.  And then power cords do even more to reduce background noise and improve on the highs as well as bring out more detail.  I have said it before, buying expensive power cords takes a lot of grit and determination.  They aren’t sexy.  They are nothing to look at but if you want the best sound out of your components that you can get then they are necessary.  And much to my disappointment, good power cords matter after the power conditioner.

I have what I consider a hifi set up just because I have all the right names.  And well, it does sound killer…. 

Well, I really hadn’t thought that a dedicated 10gage 20amp line would make much difference. I’ve played around with power cables and conditioners and I’ve only noticed maybe a 5% increase in clarity at most. So I ask to those of you that have experienced huge gains, at what price point are your electronics?  Are we talking ultra, hi or mid fi?  
 

@jimmyblues +1 sir.. 

"Ironically, after all these years my hearing is not what it used to be and I listen less critically now, and simply enjoy the music itself. The high end gear is long gone, yet I have settled with some nice components that faithfully honor the music without breaking the bank. 😊"

@synthesianguy +1

yes, diminishing returns + self delusion that there is some sort of ultimately attainable "perfection" somewhere out there "over the rainbow" are both powerful forces that can drive discontent and damage actual enjoyment ... 

covetousness of bling prestige is also a powerful negative force

Works for me.  Now if only I could find someone who would be impressed…

Some  thrive on and need to show their incredible “attention to detail” in setting up their systems, the need to show off how intelligent their considerations when they fall for the marketeers siren call.   Oh, the irony.

A lot of cable bashing here lately.  I know cables aren’t appealing like a shiny new DAC, amp or speakers; but they are just as important. Good cables and clean power are needed to realize the full potential of your system. 
I understand how difficult it is to lay down serious cash for something that will be nearly hidden in the back. You kind of want to pull people to the back of your system and show them your cables.  “See how great they look?”  “Dude, it’s a power cord”. It won’t go well.  If you are devoted to great Hifi you will take the hit on upgraded cables and power cords.  Otherwise it’s all show and no go.  
Just like a hot rod, no one will see nor appreciate the work and care you put into the engine build.  They will see only the resulting performance.  Or the athlete who trains alone at high altitude for a few months in order to excel in the games. 

A few additional things that have helped me greatly in my journey:

(1) Be open minded to information and experiences of others on these threads, and not dismiss things because I am unfamiliar with it. Same with reviewers, but with a grain of salt. I never would have considered room treatments, dedicated power lines, value of cables, speaker placement, vibration control, etc. on my own

(2) Find friends that are also in the hobby that are knowledgeable and will be open to lending you equipment to audition. I have been able to join a golf league that has quite a few audiophiles in it. I’ve been lucky enough to test gear from Denafrips, Musician, Holo Audio, Chord, Schitt, Buchadt, Phiharmonic BMRs, Ascend speakers, DDCs, Supra cables, Zavfino cables, Cullen cables, Audiolab, and a bunch more as a result.

(3) Be honest about your budget, and stick to it. I have a mid-fi budget, and can afford mid-fi components…..hopefully those that punch above their cost.

(4) Be happy with what you have now, even if you lust after other products. I love my Bluesound Node 130 with upgraded PSU and LPS, Denafrips DDC, upgraded cables…..but am saving up for an Aurender unit. Would love a pair of Tannoy GR series of speakers, but in the meantime adore my Buchardt S400 Mk II speakers.

You forgot your wish to invest in a quality turntable. 

I’ve been in this great hobby for nearly 50 years. In the early 1990s I was fortunate enough to be able to join Walt Bender’s (Rest In Peace Walt) subscription by invitation (Audiomart biweekly magazine) which included hundreds of used pieces of hifi gear.

Here I was able to try many different pieces of used hi end gear from companies such as Krell, Mark Levinson, Audio Research, Classe Audio, Sequerra etc. that I could never have afforded new. I was always able to break even, so shipping costs when I would purchase the gear and the $25 subscription fee twice a year were the only downsides.

Today, there are Websites like Audiogon and US Audiomart that function in a similar way, allowing those of us who don’t have the astrobucks to purchase hi end gear new, to do so used.

Ironically, after all these years my hearing is not what it used to be and I listen less critically now, and simply enjoy the music itself. The high end gear is long gone, yet I have settled with some nice components that faithfully honor the music without breaking the bank. 😊

"First off are Audiophiles ever happy with their components?"

I'm ecstatic.

My interest with hifi gear goes back 60 years with my first system consisting of AR3a speakers, AR turntable, Shure V15, and Dynaco St-70.  In the last few years I have come to appreciate the importance of the actual recording and mastering of the performance.  This is tops on my priority list.  Next, would be the speaker/room interface stressing the importance of an accurate speaker meticulously positioned in a room with well thought out acoustical treatment.  The speaker should be capable of great dynamic range and have superior off axis frequency response.  The system also should have a very ample amount of power driving the speakers.    For me, that’s it.

I have never unduly concerned myself with wires of any type, or power conditioning.  Instead, I invest in other types of improvement that do make a real audible difference. For example, I recently added a couple of JL Audio f112v2 subs with a JL Audio crossover to assist my Revel Salon 2’s which are driven by a pair of Parasound JC1+ monoblocks in turn served by DCS Bartok and Classe preamp.  

This addition has brought this system up to approach my reference system which is in a dedicated room in which speaker placement and acoustical treatment have been well thought out.  This system consisting of JBL M2’s, JBL sub18, and three Crown ITech 5000 amps is capable of significant dynamic range and clean high SPL.

I have always been audiophile atheist regarding wires, power conditioning, audiophile magazines (although I have subscribed to both since their inception), and  most of the myriad other ancillary devices marketed to the audiophile.

I found that Audiogon is where people go when their claims about clean power and high priced speaker wire get roasted on AVSForum.

In my 54 years in this hobby, I’ve owned …. 5 pairs of speakers.

Your philosophy ain’t too far off. I don’t waste money on cables: they are at best 2% of my budget. I don’t even bother to mention them in the link below  

theaudioatticvinylsundays.com

dman, thanks for your post. It made me think and appreciate the journey...my journey! I began my second journey after the kids left the comfortable confines of mom & dad's house and went on their own. The "before" kids group had decent equipment like a Luxman R117, Yamaha NS 1000 speakers, and an Akai Reel to Reel, to name a few. But when my wife said, "You owe it to yourself, Go for it", I started again. 

My point to this is first and primary, is research. Read, ask questions and listen. Call the company headquarters of the equipment your interested in and ask questions. Then, before you buy anything, find the right, knowable dealers. We all know that once the journey begins, there will be a lot of upgrades. Having a dealer who participates in your journey with you and gives you reasonable "Trade Up" opportunities is tantamount! Allow me to give two shout outs to 2 of those dealers - Eric at Salon 1 Audio and Taylor at Gold Print Audio. They do it right!

Then I agree, Clean Power is a must. Including proper wiring, upgraded outlets and a power conditioner. All a must.

After that, enjoy the swapping, the trading up, the tube rolling, the cable changes and the new equipment. BUT, take the time to listen and enjoy each new tweak before you do another one. Discern if, and what, should be the next move so you don't have regrets. 

I have no idea if I'm done on my journey. As we all know, can I get any better? Of course, you can always spend more money, but are you getting the increase in benefits, or are you just spending more money? Don't go on an equipment journey...partake in a listening appreciation journey. Listen to your collections whatever format they may be and appreciate the sound you've created. Enjoy a good bourbon and get lost for a few hours before life interrupts. Enjoy the journey but enjoy the music escape first and foremost!

I didn't start until 20 years ago but here are a few...

1) Don't buy anything you can't demo in your room, with your components and your music and return, if necessary.  

2) Trust your own ears but give any component plenty of listening time before making any final decisions. The mind can play tricks. 

3) Realize that each time you introduce a new component you may have to re-establish system synergy which may be simple or not so simple. 

4) If you ask for advice, be prepared for a wide range of responses

5) There's an advantage to being born an ardent music lover (someone who HAS to listen to music every day, even if it's on a cheap boom box) and having a relatively modest gear budget. 

@pwayland   +1 on building around the speakers.

@tonywinga 

Audio: It is the best of hobbies and it is the worst of hobbies. It starts with a love for music but that quickly leads to obsession.

It's this transition from the love of music to the love of gear that separates the true audiophile from the herd.

However you decide to travel, whichever fork in the road you take, the destination is usually the same.

Peace to you and now your heart is full of gladness because you can get back to the music. Or maybe you simply run out of money and can no longer fund your voracious appetite for more and better upgrades. A very sad ending for many of us.

In any case, the OP's opinion on the importance of loudspeakers and sufficient amplifier power is correct.

It has to be.

There's nothing wrong with using 20 watt per channel tube amps if you prefer their sound but you'd probably want to pair them with a pair of reasonably efficient/easy to drive loudspeakers, wouldn't you?

As for power conditioners, room treatments, isolation etc there's no doubt that these might be useful in some circumstances but it's difficult to generalise here since rooms and equipment are all built differently.

@dman1974  Thanks for sharing your story. Posts like yours can often cut to the chase in a faster way any amount of reading reviews ever will.

@tonywinga Good call on the OLED. The promise of true blacks is now a reality.

In defense of "hifi" for your home theater:

Things are happening on the screen at the speed of light. It takes power and precision from your audio system to keep up. Although we all enjoy the fireworks, sound effects and great musical score during our movie watching events, the "being there" feeling during conversations at simple restaurant scenes can be lost with mid-fi systems. To fully communicate what the director intended takes an investment.

@tonywinga Estimation of audio journey and tiers of audio very well stated! Audio just like nearly all human endeavors in that complexity nearly always in upwards trajectory. Questions never end, answers are discovered. The one thing I'd add to the upper tiers is the many paths available within those tiers, for example SS or tube, high power, low efficiency speakers, low power, high efficiency speakers, and then we have variations within these paths such as Class A, A/B, and now D for SS, SET and push pull for tube. All these paths can have great variations in cost to reach the highest tiers, for example high power usuall means higher cost. And then we have sound preferences within those tiers, highly doubtful all would find any particular system within that tier to be satisfactory, some may even doubt it's placement within that tier.

So, we see the complications never ending, for those desiring to reach the highest tiers be prepared to enjoy the process otherwise this is all tedious and a burden. I've thought more than a few times along this journey how satisfied a normal person would have been with sound quality I had attained at certain points, in those moments doubted my will or need to reach for more. I should have been happy! In recent years I've been contemplating on the idea I'm nearly at an end in this journey, with recent parcel of purchases all things on my audio bucket list have been exhausted, nothing left on short term list and only some nebulous plan for another diy custom build streamer in the future. The question becomes are we really ever done, I'm at point I'm about to find out.

Interesting thread. What do I wish I had known sooner?

1. You need power to know what’s going on. When I started using 200 watt + amps, things got easier to understand.

2. Cables and tweaks do matter, but not all the time. I remember getting some brass feet as part of a deal and putting them under a Cyrus CD player that was pretty good. Wow, what a difference. Not to mention my Gaia iii footers!

3. Speakers are important but not as much as you think. Necessary but not sufficient. I’ve changed out amps and preamps and cables but haven’t had much desire to change out my speakers. Once I got to a level that worked well I really concentrated on other things. The lesson for me here is to get some good speakers early on the journey and call it a day.

4. (Biggest revelation). It takes time. When I was working I had little time to listen and changed our way to frequently. Since I retired I listen all the time and have learned to slow down the changes and really identify well recorded reference content.

I have about $12K in my system, as follows:

31% speakers

12% cables

16% amplifiers

18% preamp

18% sources

05% tweaks

My system is strictly digital. I’m my turntable days, it would have been much mi source and tweak intense.  And this is a humble mid-fi system.  At a $40K level, I’d be much much more focused on speakers, I think. 

A couple of additional comments that I’d like to add about ultra hifi and mid fi. Ultra hifi is music reproduction on a grand scale. It creates life size 1:1 imagery as well as clarity and realism almost beyond real life. I once heard an ultra hifi system set up in a ball room. Four large panels, maybe six all powered by separate large ARC ref amps. The orchestra was laid out before me on a life size scale in 3 dimensions. I could pick out each and every instrument in the orchestra- better almost than if I had been standing in front of a real orchestra. That was in 1989. Very impressionable on a young engineer like myself.

Mid fi is not a derogatory term. At least it should not be. It describes very musical and enjoyable systems that can be assembled on a much more reasonable budget. My HT system is mid fi and I think it sounds great. It is perfect for me for watching TV. I’m not interested in going hifi with my HT although some people are. I will even listen to music in 2 channel mode on my HT system at times. For sure my HT has benefitted from trickle down from my stereo system and I appreciate the improvement in sound. I keep my obsession focused on my 2 channel system.

I recently got an OLED TV for my HT.  I have to say, that is the TV I have been waiting for all my life.  But that is for a different thread…

Thanks all for the comments. As tonywinga lays out the tiers, I would say that my system will be mid fi (actually as I think about it I’m pretty much a mid fi person in most respects, not a bad  place to be). My intention, since as I said I am older, is to err on the somewhat more expensive side as my plan is for this to be my first and last system. I am not unaware of the “rabbit hole” possibility. When the pandemic started and I spent a good amount of time at home I started buying headphones. Three years and a dozen pairs of headphones later … . 
I’ve read a lot and my thinking at the moment is to choose between the Naim Uniti Atom (thanks curtdr for the reinforcement) and the Lyngdorf NAIS 1120, the latter because it apparently has very good room correction and my system will be in a large (14’ by 37’) normally furnished living room. That introduces the frustrating ambiguity in these audio decisions: from what I’ve read the Naim will likely sound better than the Lyndorf, but everyone says the impact of the room on sound performance is enormous so that pushes me toward the Lyngdorf. But then the question is will the Lyngdorf’s room correction be sufficiently beneficial to outweigh what I understand (?) is the Naim’s superior sound quality. Further, I bough these speakers for their rich mid range and the Lyngdorf is reported to allow the speakers’ tonality  to be retained while the Naim reportedly has its “own” sound. And then there’s the issue of whether both of these have sufficient power to get the most out of these speakers (the speakers’ specs are: 8 ohms; 87 db’s impedance; recommended amplifier power of 50-150 watts), and the Naim’s and Lyndorf’s power are 40 and 50 watts respectively. When you read the reviews and the comments in audio forums some say it’s not enough to optimize those speakers while others say of course they both have plenty of power and that’s not at all an issue. Then there’s the issue of my need for simplicity and ease of operation as I am not technically facile, to say the least. (Some say the Naim is very easy to operate, but they don’t know who they’re dealing with here). I think my solution to that may be to purchase one of these amplifiers and if I really find it difficult to operate easily to add a Blusound Node, which everyone says is very easy to operate, to the system. Now I know the answer tomuch of this to find the appropriate dealers and go there and listen. But then people say that the only way to really to get an accurate picture is to audition them in your own home. But as everyone here knows that’s easier said than done. Moreover, if I decide on the Lyngdorf I would buy it new, but as the Naim is more expensive I likely would buy it used so I don’t want to take a Naim dealer’s time. And finally, because I’m just not a real audiophile, maybe I’m just overthinking this and any choice would be fine.  Oh boy. 
Sorry for the long rant and while I know it doesn’t come across here I am actually finding this to be fun. Thanks all.

@antialiased interesting observation re:generational priority differences. It makes sense. 

Also, I'm going to second having a good, reputable dealer who' s NOT a chain and/or who DOESN'T also specialize in home theater. 

Audio: It is the best of hobbies and it is the worst of hobbies. It starts with a love for music but that quickly leads to obsession. In olden times life was simpler. One went all out with either a reel to reel tape deck or settled for a turntable. FM Tuners used to be a favorite for hobbyists, but not for the hi end crowd. Next the hi end crowd could choose from a handful of tube amps and preamps and either some electrostatic Quads or a suitable box speaker if they liked to play their music loud.

Today we have a bewildering choice of sources- digital, analog, streaming, wifi, bluetooth and on and on. And then there is the listening room and the power coming into the listening room, grounding and on and on. What? Has no one done a study yet on optimum hair length for listening? Or, how about ear shape. Any audiophile oriented plastic surgeons out there to take our hearing to the next level? Incredible. But I have some either good news or bad news depending on how you want to look at it. The news is that this hobby is a rabbit hole with no apparent bottom. It is up to you as a hobbyist to decide when enough is enough. Maybe you get to a point that you can no longer hear a difference, but that doesn’t mean someone else cannot still hear a difference, or maybe you get to a point that you don’t care if there is a difference. Peace to you and now your heart is full of gladness because you can get back to the music. Or maybe you simply run out of money and can no longer fund your voracious appetite for more and better upgrades. A very sad ending for many of us. But take comfort in knowing that the next piece of better stereo gear is either out there waiting for us or will soon be invented. I myself am waiting eagerly for my new, very expensive network switch to arrive. Just a few years ago I had no idea a network switch would be my bridge to stereo nirvana. Perhaps it won’t but I’ll never know until I try.

Stereo gear is designed and built in tiers. I say these tiers, in simplistic terms are low fi, mid fi, hifi and ultra hifi. Each has a place in our lives and can provide us pleasure and entertainment. The cost or price range of each of these categories surprisingly overlap as also does performance. That is to say that a piece of mid fi gear can sound surprisingly good for the money and leave one to mistakenly conclude that hifi is a rip off. An example for me is a $500 phono cartridge. I can mount one (and I have before when my Benz died) on my tonearm and find it quite pleasing. I can find it shockingly good. But after a while I begin to notice things are not well. I begin to notice detail is missing. Tracking wasn’t so great on some records, and so forth. I go back to a hi end cartridge and now the music is right again. Word of warning: Don’t step into the high end pool unless you are ready to pay. It’s like getting an upgrade to first class on an overseas flight. The ride home in coach is really horrible after that. Life is not fair but that is how things are. So it can get confusing when we hear a piece of lower price gear sound really good. Be careful not to make a conclusion based on a sample of one. The thing that experienced audio hobbyists can discern is pseudo hifi. That’s because we have all gotten burned at some time or another. Experience is the best teacher but guaranteed its going to hurt at times.

As I said the tiers overlap both in price and in performance. Many systems likely have a mix of some low end hifi or high end mid fi even if we want to believe it’s all hifi. And then there is the ultra hifi. If you think you have hit the ceiling and your stereo sounds as good as any stereo can sound, seek out an audition in a room with ultra hifi. One of three things happen- a) you cannot hear a difference, b) you hear a difference and want to throw all of your gear into a bonfire, c) You are filled with joy knowing your hobby has a new, higher ceiling and the quest can continue. If you fall into category C- please seek help.

What is hifi, low fi and mid fi? These are the definitions by Tony. Take them with a grain of salt. I am an old crotchety retired engineer full of outdated opinions. (I don’t think they are outdated but I get a lot of feedback to the contrary).

lo fi- iPods, car radios, bose radios, etc. Casual listening suitable for driving and singing along, or while working in the yard, cleaning house, etc. Also great for rides in elevators.

mid fi- The first vestiges of a music system. Sometimes recognizable as a 2 channel stereo. Can be a receiver based system or integrated amp based. Mass produced gear with components ranging from industrial grade to audio grade in the better quality gear. Mid fi gear can sound pleasant to good and even great with ample bass and rhythm. Generally mid fi lacks focused imaging and a three dimensional soundstage. The soundstage will breakdown and the sound become harsh or congested when the music gets loud or busy. But for college dorms this is how we rock! Yeah!

hifi- Generally this level of gear is boutique level. It is handmade or hand assembled using high level quality components that have been sorted or produced with minimal variation. High level designs with maximum performance in mind. Each component is typically auditoned by the manufacturer before shipping. Hifi can range widely from producing exquisite mid range with vocals to die for to full range systems that can reproduce organ notes like being there. Hifi is known to have a soundstage with a level of realism to almost being there. Three dimensional soundstage with sharply focused images. Very low noise that adds to the realism and striking dynamic range and response. Hifi can invoke intense emotional responses to the music. Once encountering hifi one to two responses are possible- a) You become smitten and spend the rest of your life pursuing that feeling, that moment when you first encountered hifi. (That’s me). b) You think, "sounds great" so what’s the big deai? In this case, peace to you and may your heart be filled with gladness. Go spend your money on a boat.

Ultra hifi- This is reserved for the handful (27) of billionaires in the entire world that a) have the disposable income for a $1 million record player, b) care enough to set apart a dedicated room that costs more than most homes, and c) have the time to dedicate to this hobby when not jet setting to World Economic Forums. Ultra hifi is an unforgettable experience. The musicians are in the room with you. Close your eyes and you can feel them moving about the room It is eerie and uncanny. Noise levels are absolute zero and dynamic range is beyond real life. Recordings feel like live concerts. Every sound, rhythm and pulse is delicious. The best high end hifi systems get very close to this.

Keep in mind that it is true, money cannot buy everything. These tiers overlap which can cause much confusion. Expertise in applying the gear, designing the listening room and knowing how synergy between components is working are key to getting the best sound for your dollar.

Here’s the best part: Spend $15k, $150k or $300k and still someone will comment that it could be better. Have enough family or friends over and someone will comment about a deficiency in the sound somehow. Think not? Just go to Axpona and listen to all the great gear in each of the rooms. Then listen to the comments of people when they leave those rooms. This is the hobby that tries men’s souls. (Ok, ok that tries people’s souls.)

right, that's why matching is important.

and, I also agree that the OP is rather out of control... 10 amps in three years ?  come on, that's crazy.  Relax.  Pick something good, and then just enjoy it.

@grislybutter

but "weakness of the source and amp" is far more subtle than better speakers... even resolving speakers still sound great on something like the Marantz n40, or even my Pioneer Elite. Would speakers sound even better w a more expensive amp than those? eh, maybe, depends on the ears more than the amp

diminishing returns kick in hard more w amps than speakers, likewise w source like cd player (my old Sony cd changer still sounds excellent, even w its own built in dac, though my Marantz Ruby cd player does sound better the "better" is quite subtle:  $50 used for the Sony, $2400 open box deal for the Ruby... definitely huge diminishing returns)... though diminishing returns on speakers is also a very real rule.

good speakers make music sound good even from a "lesser" amp and cd player, but a great amp cannot make bad speakers sound good.

@curtdr 

the better the speaker the more revealing it will be. Revealing the weakness of the source and amp. No joy will come out of it.

It makes no sense to watch blueray movie on a VGA monitor

@switzer145  and @jond 

And what jond says also makes sense, too... a Naim Unity or something like that

@switzer145

You’re right to start with the nice speakers.

Think about something like the Marantz n40 amp... old school/new tech: has a streamer and all the modern hookups, plus has bass, treble, balance controls right on the face. That’d sound really nice with your Grahams. You can tack on an over the air tuner like a Teac for about $125, if you like radio, and the Marantz 60 cd player if you want to stay "matched" or even an inexpensive Yamaha CD player will do you fine.

Or even a decent receiver; I have a Pioneer Elite sx-84 from about 1999 aprox that has hdmi, optical, and coax inputs, bass/subwoofer management, surround sound though I only use it for stereo... 140 watts of deep rich power; really sounds very nice with a decent pair of speakers... and it already has a decent over the air tuner too; you can get one for less than $300 on ebay, and then tack on a Bluesound Node for your streamer and you’re good to go for less than $1000.

@akg_ca  "An affordable speaker with high-end amplification and source makes more sense in audio performance, than an expensive speaker matched up with a cheap amp and source."

I must disagree.  The speaker is where the rubber hits the road.  The sound that reaches your ears can be no better than the speaker itself, full stop.  It will not matter how expensive your amplifier is, if the speaker isn't up to task.

as far as "garbage in, garbage out"... well, you don't have to spend a lot of money to NOT have garbage, when it comes to amplifiers and cd players or streamers... 

Decent but inexpensive amps and cd players can sound marvelous, but only with good speakers.  There is much bigger bang-for-the-buck in upgrading speakers.  

Nice little speakers @switzer145 and not that difficult to drive Rega and Naim would be natural partners who make all in one solutions. Croft for a more bare bones approach with better sound would work also.

I am older and just recently got into this hobby. I just purchased my first set of speakers (Graham ls 6) for their rich midrange and are deciding on an amplifier, dac and streamer which I will probably buy as an all in one to keep things as simple as possible. I understand that separates usually sound much better, but I am not an audiophile both because my hearing is older and I don’t have a strong knowledge base in music. What I do like is listening to beautiful music which I can do for hours. I want to thank the OP for starting this thread and the people who contributed for very interesting and often helpful reading. As many others have said, this is simultaneously such a fun and frustrating hobby.

LOL @viridian for some of us the hot chicks wouldn't talk to us so we were left with our stereos. 🤣

On the topic of gear churning it can be both stressful and fun. I started churning back in 2000 and over a 6 year period turned over so many amps, preamps, speakers, cd players, cables etc. I finally discovered in getting a used tube amp repaired that I lived near an excellent dealer. That dealer was smart enough to send me home with a loaner amp which sounded much better than the amp they were fixing.

A few years later I bought that amp from them, bought a preamp, bought speakers and volila my gear churning days came to an end. And I get better sound than ever before.

Sometimes the point is the journey but the destination is a totally different thing and there are many ways to skin a cat!

The very first thing an audiophile should learn is perhaps anathema to many in this community, but unquestionably true. That the relationship between equipment quality/price and the listener's audio experience, is entirely asymptotic. The perfect audio system is an illusion and after a certain point the gains become infinitesimal, and most certainly inconsequential. This is a physical reality, that can only be mitigated by self-delusion. Your system is already as perfect as its likely to get.