What will it take to have live music for everyone?

Good question, Lakefrontroad. In a word, as one told me some time ago, the best thing one can invest in their system is 'time'.

That is the best answer I can think of.

More specifically I think that when one invests 'time' they begin to realize there's a lot of old wive's tales being propagated out there. And without time and experimentation it is impossible to develop an open mind which often times leads to further experimentation, and hopefully greater sonics.

Just a few of the more popular old wive's tales that can prevent the masses from achieving the type of system/soncis you're talking about might include:

o A room's acoustics account for 80% of the sound when it really is speaker placement and the speaker's interaction with the room. Even then it's only perhaps 20 to 25 percent.

o Refusal to accept that everybody's AC is dirty and is in need of proper line conditioning. Instead they focus their attention on power cables only.

o Thinking that most line conditioners must be good.

o Thinking that installing dedicated circuits/lines somehow magically cleans up the AC coming from the street.

o Vibration control via racking systems and mechanical diodes does little or nothing to a system's soncis. Rather they install their systems on a china buffet, window shelf, floor, Plexiglas, kitty litter, innertubes, tennis balls, etc..

o Many still don't realize that sharing AC circuits with other components, lamps, etc. can literally choke the dynamics from the amp.

o Many still think they must spend lots of money.

o Many still think that assembling a superior system is all science, when like most things in life it is more art and trial and error than science.

o Many still think cryo-treatment is snake oil. But that's only because their systems fall short in one or more of the above categories.

o Many still think that if an ic, sc, or pc isn't thicker than their garden hose it can't possibly be any good.

o Many still think that amplifiers are more similar sonically than they are different.

o That dealers, mfg'ers, reviewers, and enthusiasts know what they are talking about and are trustworthy. Far too many times it can be the blind leading the blind. Or worse, far too many times it can be the deceptive leading the blind.

There's plenty of other old wive's tales but I think these are some of the more sonically impacting ones.

-IMO

Stehno, your words of wisdom ring true, oh wise one :-) My only problem involves cryo'ing. Originally, cryo'ing was used as a tempering treatment for homogeneous metals. Different metals [or non-metallic objects] have different coefficients of expansion...think of how a bimetallic strip or coil works in a thermostat!

My concern would be damage done to a component using many different materials, with many different coefficients of expansion. They are being exposed to a temperature extreme for which the design parameters were never intended.

Yes, I know people swear that the sound gets better, or at least changes, but I would be afraid of premature failure or problems. I may be wrong...just my opinion.

I find it interesting that others don't have a sense that cost is a major factor. Cost being a function of volume for the most part. I can conceive of high end electronics being replicated in mass volume at costs that are mass affordable. Not cheap, but affordable.

If that was/is the case, and equipment continues in the same direction, it poses the possibility that many could have the equivalent of the rarest of systems today at prices that are currently in the uppwardly mobile market.

But, I believe correctly stated in another thread, the goal for many is not live or life-like music, but rather a skew on that. For some, as they imaging music to sound and for others as they wish it to be. Still others don't want the involvement and captivation that real music brings, but want music as a part of the landscape, not the subject itself.

I am all of those at various times and therefore relate to the ideas.

I just can't get my arms around the idea that everyone doesn't want the real thing, if they could get it.

Maybe, the truth is that most don't believe they can have it and therefore have a reason why it's not important to them.

As is obvious, the why really interests me.

Thanks, Fatparrot. Regarding the cryo-treatment thing, I was really only thinking of wiring, cabling, ics, outlets, IEC connectors and receptacles, plugs, etc., and perhaps some line conditioners. To be honest, I’m not even sure why I threw that issue in except to say that I’ve heard some fascinating improvements from even just one Hubbell 20 amp cryo-treated IEC connector upgrade (from a standard Hubbell 20 amp version) and yet there’s a host of people out there claiming it’s snake oil.

Lakefrontroad, from what I understand the percentage of adult population who even half-seriously endeavor in this hobby is perhaps 0.5 %. If that is true, the mass production thing probably will never happen. Although between Home Theater, 2-channel, price, and performance, mfg’er Nuforce may perhaps be as close as any high-end mfg’er is going to get toward ‘mass producing’ high quality components and at affordable prices.

I think the fact of the matter is most aren't even aware the potential for such sonics exists. For example, I like TAS magazine, but it was only in or around issue 126 in 2002 where they had written about the results of rewiring room 3 at Seacliff and installed 15 amp, 20 amp, and 30 amp dedicated circuits/lines, etc. Scott Markswell stated that the sonic differences were so great that he regrettably admitted until that point-in-time all their previous components reviewed could not possibly have realized their fullest potential until they installed the new re-wiring. That’s quite an admission maybe even embarrassing. Yet some enthusiasts had already been realizing those benefits of dedicated lines long before that admission.

I suppose if one has never seen or driven a Ferrari before, it doesn't make much sense to attempt to acquire one or make one’s Cadillac perform just like the Ferrari. Not to say that a Ferrari is the end-all. Bad analogy perhaps and my first post above may have sounded a bit scattered but that was actually one of the points I was trying to make.

The other side of that same coin are those who have a vested interest to steer the consumer or industry in a certain direction for monetary and/or prideful gain with little or no regard for true performance improvements and long-term improvements within the industry itself.

But I suppose what I was really trying to say was there seems to be a lot of potential baggage, history, politics, dogmatism, and just enough subjectivity to make it near impossible for even one (much less the masses) to begin to achieve the level of sonics you may be thinking of. Not impossible because there’s always a handful of mfg’ers who stay out and/or are kept out of the mainstream yet still manage to produce a superior product and remain in business.

These may well be some of the very reasons this industry has stagnated over the last 5 years and there are some who actually think it’s a dying industry.

But one thing seems fairly certain, conventional audio wisdom will never take the masses to the promised land.

-IMO