Where is the significant point of diminishing returns on hi-end turntable?

mmporsche,

With all due respect, if you want a "set and forget" system, you’re better off putting your $25K into a digital front end that gets you as close to the sound of great vinyl as possible. You can do it these days; digital has gotten that good.

In order to get the most out of vinyl, though--or even just to make your $25K sound like $25K--you really have to be willing to participate in the sound, every aspect of it, and actively.

Why? Because vinyl is experiential on both sides of your speakers. We love the sound because it engages completely--because it has the potential (as Coleridge described the ideal poet) to bring the whole soul of man into activity. Activity. Vinyl is not really a spectator sport. You have to get in there up to your elbows and then your ears, and that takes time, patience, and commitment. Gradually, you sediment in the experience and knowledge you need to realize the medium’s wonders, and that’s part of its charm.

So, I’d echo some earlier comments and say, get ready for the long game. Spend money on quality tools for set up, a variety of them, and learn how to use them. Become a patient student and experimenter; read all you can, ask the village elders for advice, and simply try and err. In the process, you’ll understand what makes the medium work its magic on *your* ears; and, like Dr. Strange, you’ll learn how to conjure that magic at will. Only then will you get your money’s worth, and your $25K will sound like a million bucks.

Bill

I already invested $6k into my DAC and that's good enough for me.  It is very nice but I know how good vinyl can sound when done right. 

To be clear, I enjoy tweaking and some of the ritual associated with viny. I just don't want to spend more time preparing to listen than actually listening. That is why I chose the KLaudio cleaner; seemed to be the balance between a quality cleaning and low end user involvement. 

Nottingham arm is also set and forget it, just spend couple of hours or less to set the VTA and anti-skate and VTF and leave it alone. Check the settings every year or so just in case or if you hear the difference.
What I most dislike about playing vinyl is cleaning the stylus before playing each side and flipping records every 20 minutes. Cleaning records does take time and effort, but you don't have to do it often unless you constantly buy many records. I think, mmporsche is on the right path, it is just difficult to choose when you have good funds and not many opportunities to compare. But many people keep their tables for a very long time, so it requires a special attention because of that too.

Dear @mmporsche : """ I appreciate the advice and I don’t want some high maintenance system. My objective is high quality sound with a reasonable amount of fuss/work. ...... I am more the set it and forget it. I will spend the time and learn how to set it up once properly and make some minor tweaks but that is it. """

""" I just want to buy great products the first time that are very satisfying and spend hours listening to great music. """


Analog is not " set it and forget it ", could be but depend on other personal factors.

""".... very satisfying ? """

if that is what you are looking for then may I ask you: which is your level of analog satyisfying and how do you know it’s exactly that?

I think that first you have to fix your knowed personal premises to achieve it but even that money is no object ( and this fact can only help to start and for up-grades. ) I thing your overall analog knowledge ignorance level is not adequated for what you posted in both threads. I know that because IMHO you are not asking the rigth questions.

I see you as a " child " that needs and like to buy a new toy and that’s excited to do it and react emotionally to many of the gentlemans advices and after that you have more doubts than certainty of which toys fill your needs.

My take is that you think you know your needs but in reality you don’t. You are a wise man but true analog high end is a new " land " for you. You need to learn before pull the trigger.

You have to start asking you: step by step which is the path/road ( detaliled one. ) where the cartridge delicate and way sensitive electrical music information must pass till arrives your ears and where at each one of those single steps the signal is degraded ( always is. ) and the level of degradation is not the same.

You have to learn where the signal suffer more degradation to take care scrupulously on those single links with higher degradation levels in order to achieve audio system degradation at minimum. So, analog rig is only part of that audio system. Important? yes but analog rig is not an island surrounded by nothing but for a real " furious sea " where degradation means: distortions of every type and at the ends means that as higher distortions comes as less MUSIC we listen.

You can pull the trigger rigth now ( is your money. ) but if I was you: learning experiences are more important because you are not " dying " now.

Wise money investment is the key not the money. Money is always important but more important is if you know for sure how and why spend it. Same like when you choose a Porsche over a Ferrari where you don’t only buy a Porsche but a precise Porsche model. Why is that?


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

I just don’t want to spend more time preparing to listen than actually listening.

Me neither. Who does? I typically clean an album once, use a brush before each play, and keep my styli clean. But you will want to fine tune your set up, play with various cartridges, etc., hence my statements about tools and activity.

To your Clearaudio question: I owned an Innovation Wood with a Universal arm for 18 months and never really cottoned to it, finding it somewhat hard and thin. I didn’t like the DC motor being built into the support pillar, either, as it was noisy and clearly audible on the armboard through a cheap stethoscope. I replaced it with a Brinkmann Oasis, which is much better, IMO. Each on a Minus-K. I did like the Clearaudio’s capacity for two arms, though (my other was a Phantom II, now a Supreme in use on the Oasis), and it was speed-stable.