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Why is an XA30.5 a bad match for Revel Ultima Salon II speakers?

I actually own Revel M106 speakers right now, but some day, I intend to replace them with full range speakers like the Wilson Sophia II or Revel Salon II.

People say you need a lot of power to drive the Salons. The M106 and Salon II have almost the same sensitivity, and the XA30.5 can play the M106 louder than I prefer to listen (FYI I have a Velodyne powered sub). I guess my ears are pretty sensitive to loud volumes.

Does having all the mass of driving full range woofers into the 20hz range increase or complicate the workload on the amp significantly?

What is it about these speakers and many others that would demand a larger amp even at moderate volumes? My XA30.5 is supposed to be good for about 190W into 4 ohms, but nobody, including Pass Labs, seems to recommend an amp of that size for the Revel Salon II.

If I were to buy the Salons but had no amp budget, would I be better off trading for a more powerful but somewhat lesser quality amp than the XA30.5 such as a Parasound?
sboje
bombaywalla's avatar
bombaywalla
1,958 posts
 

bifwynne,

thanks for the feedback re. your amp - 150W-165W/ch if the speaker is connected to the correct tap.

Magneplanars are planar (mix of ribbon & planar) speakers which tend to have (really) low impedances much like some of the extreme cone-driver speakers (think B&W). In such cases we are back to using high-current, high wattage s.s. amps. Or, in many other cases I’ve seen people using high-wattage class-D amps successfully. Unfortunately for these sort of lower sensitivity speakers with lower impedances & tough phase angles that’s the solution that works best.
In the end one can hook-up any speaker to any amp & you will get music but you wont be getting the best out of that particular speaker you paid handsomely for & it will keep you longing for more. What’s the point?

I know you really like your all-ARC system but ARC does make bigger i.e. higher wattage amps. What about spending the money on the next level up power amp rather than the latest preamp. A bigger amp will open your doors to many other speakers that are on your list but you can’t get because they might be substandard sonically due to your present amp’s output wattage.

Or, find another speaker with a more benign impedance & phase plot that will be in the sweet-spot of your present amp. I’m sure such a speaker exists....

So, the DEQX is sidelined due your philosophy of minimizing the signal chain? nothing wrong with DEQX - just that you are a minimalist w.r.t. audio gear, right?

[good thing you didn't spend anymore on it.... ;-)]

bifwynne
2,206 posts
 
@bombaywalla , you wrote " [s]o, the DEQX is sidelined due your philosophy of minimizing the signal chain? nothing wrong with DEQX - just that you are a minimalist w.r.t. audio gear, right?"  

Yes, ... correct.  The DEQX solves many problems. That said, in my case, and IMO, ARC gear is very synergistic when used with other ARC components.  IOW, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, ... if I got that right.  The DEQX detracts from the considerable ARC component synergistic effect, ... IMO.  

Btw, I checked the specs on the Revel Studio II.  Unlike its bigger brother, its sensitivity is close to 89 db.  See here: http://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-ultima-studio2-loudspeaker-measurements#xX3PQVeOHrCwDxHS.97

Notably, I used to own Paradigm S8s (version 2) which also had a rated sensitivity of 89 db.  My amp drove the S8s (version 2) to ear splitting levels.  And btw, the S8s (v2 and v3) have pretty wicked capacitive phase angles and low impedance plots in the bass region.  

Perhaps, I could get a similar loudness result with the Studios???  More importantly, I wonder if the Studios even sound better than my S8s.  So much hype and brand snobbery in our hobby.  Also, the Studios tip the scales at 140 pounds each.  The S8s are a slimmer 100 pounds each. Ouch!

You also suggested getting the next ARC amp model up the food chain. That would be the Ref 250 SE.  Too expensive; too much heat; not enough space.  

Thanks again.
stewart0722
184 posts
 
I had Revel Studio 2s, and originally drove them in a fairly large room
with a ARC VSI60 and on most material, it sounded fine......but
when dynamics showed themselves, it ran out of gas quickly.......
so I can emphatically say 60 watts of tubes aren't enough into that
4ohm load, with mediocre efficiency......I then went to Pass X350.5
and never had an issue..........but I eventually swapped the Studios
for Magnepan 3.7s, which are also 4 ohm with mediocre efficiency,
and they wanted even more than the X350.5, so I went to Bryston 7BSST2s with great results 900W into 4ohm......I now still have those speakers with Bryston 28BSST2's, nearly 2KW into 4 ohm and the Maggies just sing........I would never consider Revel again against these speakers, but I liked them while I had them........
ptss
1,964 posts
 
Stewart,what do you do for bass?

initforthemusic
282 posts
 
I have Revel Ultima Studios and the more quality power I feed into them the better they sound. So I imagine it would be even more so for the Salon's

I'm using Vincent SP998 Mono Blocks and they sound sublime.  300W into 8 ohms, 50W Class A. 600W into 4 ohms. They have the best grip on bass I have ever heard. Beautifuly musical sounding they make the Revel's come alive. They just cruise effortlessly. You would have to spend truckloads more to get this performance.


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