Will a subwoofer add depth and clarity to my system, or just bass?

dave_b:" No such thing as perfect bass response...varies by venue!  So, that being the case, one can relax and get 1 or 2 subs for their system and play around until your happy with the sound.  Doesn’t need to be over engineered or killed with angst!  Have fun, grab a brew and enjoy the tunes."

Hello dave_b,

     I completely agree that there's no such thing as perfect bass response, especially in such a compromised space as a domestic room. I now consider the number of subs and their configurations more as available method options that can be measured, both subjectively and objectively, and ranked in their relative effectiveness in typical rooms.
     I'm one who took your advice about four decades ago and got a decent passive sub with a 12" driver, and an Adcom GFA545 class AB amp to power it, in an attempt to attain better bass response, extension and impact in my room from an early system that lacked all 3.
    It was around 1980 and I was trying to attain better bass response not only for music but also for my first home theater attempt and incorporating Dolby 5.1 surround sound audio into my system.
     This is how and when my experience using a single sub in my system began. As I recall, it was exciting and fun to experiment with sub positions and settings for the first time.  I was able to attain very good bass response at a single listening position for ht. For music, the bass was more prevalent and had more impact at my listening seat but clearly did not integrate well with the fast and smooth midrange/treble response of my planar-magnetic panel main speakers; I consistently perceived the bass as a bit lagging and disconnected.
     Years later, I bought a self-amplified Klipsch sub with a 10" driver from a friend and experimented with using 2 subs running in both mono and stereo configurations. I had difficulty distinguishing a significant benefit with both subs along my front wall in a stereo configuration as compared to mono configuration. But I did notice the bass seemed faster, smoother and better integrated with my main speakers from my listening seat after I used the 'sub crawl' method to sequentially position each sub.
      I finally concluded the bass sounded best to in my room with both running in mono, one along my front 16' wall about 4' away from the right corner and the other about mid-point along my left 23' wall.
     I was convinced about a decade later by James Romeyn, and extensive related research on the subject, to purchase and home audition for a 4-week in-home trial period the Audio Kinesis Debra 4-sub distributed bass array system all powered by an included 1,000 watt class AB mono amp.
      As some of you know I've already stated about 2 gazillion times and climbing, the Debra system has provided the best bass response in my room and system that I've ever experienced.
     The bass is extremely natural, seemingly effortless, amazingly detailed and integrates seamlessly with my fast Magnepan 2.7QR panels. It's capable of accurately reproducing whatever type of bass the content calls for; rhythmic, solid, taut bass with natural leading edges and decays on music as well as sudden, dynamic bass with dramatic impact on ht and music.
    I was originally contemplating just buying 2 high quality traditional self-amplified subs that were larger. But I rationalized that the Debra would be about the same price ($2,800) as 2 expensive subs and, based on several very positive pro reviews and the impressive published scientific results of how well the dba concept works, that I shouldn't pass up the chance to try it out at no cost except time and determine for myself how well this solution actually works.
    Well, the results far exceeded my expectations. I now consider my system's bass as state of the art and honestly can't think of a single bass performance quality that needs improvement. Oh yeah, and this sota bass response is perceived throughout my entire 23x16x8 foot room including all 6 varied seating positions.
       I now consider the bass quality of systems using 1, 2-3 and 4 subs as good, better, best. Why waste time messing around with 1-3 subs and having some 'fun' when you could just buy an A K 4-sub dba, or build your own custom dba and have a blast? You'll have the rest of your life to relax and enjoy it since you certainly won't, IMHO, be searching for a better bass system.

Tim  

Hello Jazz,

Beautiful speakers.  You have the thoughtfully matched stands.  I would not change a thing other than review placement and any 'treatment' you have in your listening area.  Maybe taming frequencies of 'higher' vocals and up might have the same effect from other end of the frequency spectrum.  Adding power is easy, but all that energy goes somewhere and not always in a productive way.

Speaker designers of "quality" brands take great pains in running standardized test batteries, anechoic chamber testing and rounds and rounds of reviewers (I could imagine) to sound natural and pensive on their own merits.  Adding a sub to B&W 805 speakers is another discussion I have seen often.  Bookshelf-size speakers are not intended to supplant full-range speakers, and additionally lack a mid-range separate.  Based upon the listening area, a smaller footprint has a great purpose in being a better match versus over-sized speakers that would generate too much unfocused sound pressure to be pleasing.

A question...

do you think that a subwoofer will still offer some benefits in enlarging
the soundscape and improving the sense of ambiance if combined
with some solid floor standers with a 30Hz (-3dB) bass?

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

racedoc,

Main thing to keep in mind is the difference between adding "a subwoofer" and adding several. I've had "a" sub as has Tim and others, and what we're all saying is there's a huge difference when going to the multiple sub/distributed bass array/swarm type setup. Your speakers go pretty deep already, but the value we're talking about is a lot more than that. In other words even if you gained zero in terms of extension and headroom (you will, but assume not for now) then you would still notice a lot of improvement just in terms of the bass being a lot more articulate, musical and lifelike. Its just hard to appreciate until you hear it because listening to only one or two subs in a system that's all you really get, a little more extension, a little more volume. With 4 you open a whole new dimension.

In terms of ambience and soundscape, there's two very different ways people hear or perceive that. There's the higher frequencies where timing is so important and we all pretty well get that part. But the way we perceive and interpret low frequencies is quite different in that timing hardly even matters its the speed and smoothness of the bass that counts. Smoothness comes from more sources that create more modes, which equates to faster bass.

What I'm hearing, or better experiencing because of this, is less like more/deeper bass than more/deeper immersion in the recording. You just feel more "in" the space than in your room.

So to answer your question no, I don't think that "a" subwoofer will do much for you. But three or four? Yes. Definitely.

Dear @skipskip :  """   'higher' vocals and up might have the same effect from other end of the frequency spectrum. Adding power is easy, but all that energy goes somewhere and not always in a productive way.  """

no it does not have the same effect, it has a way different efect nd when you add a pair of self powered subs wired in the system in true stereo fashion you don't do it just for " power " not at all.

The main target adding 2 subs is to reduce the IMD overall distortion levels developed in the main passive speakers, this is the main target and along that comes a better quality performance levels in the bass frequency range that no passive full range speakers can  gives you, no matter whats or whom is the name: Wilson, Magico, YG and the like: no matters.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/do-you-think-you-need-a-subwoofer/post?postid=310058#310058

To understand those statements and its real meaning you need to have first hand experiences about.


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.