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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,479 posts
 
Salectric, you are finding different CAST values sound different not because the cap sounds different, but because the VALUE sounds a little different in that position. That has been my experience - this is especially true of preamp output/coupling caps. Larger values my have more bass impact etc...due to how the corresponding piece of gear downhill from the CAST cap performs with it...synergy.

I have found that sometimes Duelund CAST caps may too revealing and a tad bass shy in some locations. Rare, but I have heard it.

One cap I keep talking about is the JFX JB Premium film cap. I replaced the CAST with these in several pieces to compare and these are a steal folks. $5 for a 3.0uf value! $11 for a 6.8uf value. They are warmer sounding than the CAST with better bass. They are not as resolving however. They are more polite in the top end, but depending on what your looking to accomplish, they can be ideal!

I use combination of both on my system. Nice results.

Another cap I like is the paper wrapped Jensen copper. very rich and full bodied. Again, not as resolving as the CAST, but a nice lower cost alternative if needed.

The JFX cap is easily the cap of choice if looking for excellent sound quality that is affordable. Forget, Solen, Mundorf etc......these JFX's caps are a far better value. ya, to my ears they sound better
salectric
751 posts
 
Grannyring,

I agree that in some instances the cap values can be responsible for a change in tonal balance. The smaller value cap has a higher -3db frequency. But in my test I used a very high impedance load (330K) so this shouldn't be a factor.

I also agree the JFX JB Premium caps are quite a bargain. They sound pretty good and at the price you just can't go wrong. But if we disregard price and value, I have found them to be too bright and too lean (at least in speaker crossovers), and they don't pass along enough detail. For just a little more money, I prefer Sonicap Gen 1.
ricevs
1,543 posts
 
Cap tests have to be done very carefully or wrong results can occur. The caps have to be fully burned in, with the outside foil to ground or output, damped and the leads need to be damped. Not doing all the above will result in misfire. Never listen to cap dangling in the air....simply horrible. Never add a bypass cap dangling in the air (many do this). A fellow came onto the Audioasylum tweak forum and complained that adding a Roderstein/Vishay .1 bypass across the main cap just made it bright. I told him to damp the cap and damp the leads and he came back and was amazed that now it was better than no bypass.

Please get some small WA Quantum dots and try on your caps....simply mindblowing. I listened to the JB JFX cap first (no burn in) and found it very lacking. Then I immediately added a WA Quantum dot and it was mucho better. Then I left it burning it for about 2 hours and it was way better. Then burned it in overnight and now even better, then I bypassed the 1uf cap with one or my modified .33 Wima caps....this extended the treble and now was a world class coupling cap combo. I use this on the output of my mods to the Oppo 105 (2 uf JB JFX cap with outside foil to output, WA Quantum dot applied and bypassed with .33 modded Wima (MKP2).

Remember...there are copper foil caps coming in a couple of months from Jupiter Condenser that may be better than cast copper Dueland (reported to be better by several listeners....as in: "hearing things I never heard before"). These caps will be somewhat less expensive than Dueland and easier to get (once in production).
ricevs
1,543 posts
 
By the way, I have carefully removed the end fill epoxy and wires on a .1uf JB JFX cap and attached my own 22 gauge wires using Wonder Solder Signature and the cap is fully functional. I am going to try some 2uf caps with different wires and see how much sonic difference it makes. Even removing the epoxy on the end will make a sonic difference. Some wires I will try include the Dueland pure silver silk/oil/foils, Neotech PCOCC copper litz braid, some copper/gold, OCC copper clad with silver, etc. Even my bare single strand Cardas copper wires tinned with Wonder Solder could be a noticeable improvement over the stock wire/epoxy combo.
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,479 posts
 
Ricevs ...great stuff and thanks so much. Please explain how to damp a cap .... The best way to damp a cap.

Salectric, I have not used the JFX in a speaker, just tube electronics and CD players. In those positions they are just the opposite of your speaker experience. They are full bodied with deep bass and warm in the highs. Never, ever even approaching bright. Now, they were the first few hours, but not after burn in. Interesting. Not sure if they should be avoided with speakers?
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