Jazz for aficionados

No, O-10, that may be what you feel; but it is not the case.  Why, then, do you ask the questions; if you don't want the answers?  I'll make you a deal, don't ask me questions directly and I won't give you any answers directly.  I am sincerely sorry if our interaction causes you to not have "fun"; that is certainly not my intention.

The "problem" can be boiled down to a couple of basic things, and this has been discussed (argued) before: Jazz and any other serious music is high art with a tremendous amount of very interesting "stuff" going on; it resists being kept only in the realm of "fun".  I think that your idea of "fun" in discussing jazz is, in part, to be able to postulate and present things in a manner that conveys a certain sense of "authority" and ignore much of this interesting stuff; and, then, you recoil and take matters very personally when there is disagreement.  The disagreement leads to attempts at discussions  and these "discussions" lead to the opening of many "cans or worms" (those pesky things called "facts").  Underneath all this is the basic conflict created by your stance that it is one's subjective impressions that tell the whole story and the stance that considers subjectivity as only part of the story.  I do have to say that I find irony in our recent discussions and your refusal to accept my subjective opinions while demanding answers to why I feel that way (Thomas' yodeling).  Lastly, when there is disagreement, there is a tendency to lace your comments with a certain amount of sarcasm and provocation.  This last thing is relatively unimportant as we are all, hopefully, big boys and girls, but this doesn't promote good dialogue.

So.... there, that was my analysis of the "problem".  Once again, what you may feel is another long-winded anti-fun comment.  From my perspective, if one can't identify a problem and see it for what it is there's no chance in hell that it will be solved.  And, I am truly interested in solving the problem because as I have said many times before, this is your thread and I respect and commend you for starting it.  As before, and in deference to you, if you want me to simply go away I will do so; just say the words.  In the meantime, I encourage you to return to your retrospective on Horace Silver; as Rok said, there is much work to do and I look forward to your comments.

Rok, I LOVED that clip. Had not heard that record and one of the reasons that I look forward to O-10’s retrospective; as much Silver as I have heard there’s a lot to catch up on. I think the title of this record is perfect timing for the recent squabbling; always good to keep one’s sense of humor. I find your comments interesting and I agree that Silver’s "loudest voice" is as a composer/band leader and, as individualistic as he was, less so as a player; just a few bars of that tune and one knows it’s a Silver composition. You’re right, Kisor went on to JALC and he sounds great on this record. Jimmy Green also sounds very good. To be frank, I am surprised how good both of these guys sound. Another testament to Wynton as a bandleader; he certainly knows how to pick them.

I am...lets just say..."intrigued" by your comment:

****It’s a sad indictment of modern Jazz that this was as good as anything else being played at the time it was released. You would have thought Silver would have been considered ’vintage’ by 2000.****

If we agree that this is good jazz, why the "indictment" of modern jazz if there is modern jazz as good as this (there is)? Moreover, much has been made on this thread about jazz "not needing to change". Here we have a great example of really good jazz in a more traditional hard-bop style and recorded in 1999. I don’t see the problem. I think the moral of the story is that "vintage" and "modern" can live side by side as long as the quality is good. Thanks for the clip and the introduction to the record; this is one I have to get. Speaking of vintage (very!) and "side by side":

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1oKBhSOjppc

Indictment:

Just my way of saying, Silver was Silver, just as he always was, and his music was still better than most , or all, in my opinion, Jazz being played almost 50 years later.

Sort of like Magic Johnson coming back into the NBA today and being MVP, leading scorer and average a triple double for the entire season.   That would reflect badly on the current NBA players, or maybe, just reflect on the greatness of magic.



The Frogman:
I have seen conductors use the regular sized batons and even no baton at all.   But this?   WTF, over?  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZDiaRZy0Ak&list=RDdZDiaRZy0Ak

Cheers

****Sort of like Magic Johnson coming back into the NBA today and being MVP, leading scorer and average a triple double for the entire season. That would reflect badly on the current NBA players, or maybe, just reflect on the greatness of magic****

Good point and good analogy.  And as much as we may resist the simplicity of it, and as much as we have heard it, isn't it amazing how it always comes back to this simple comment?:

"There's only two kinds of music, good music and the other kind".  

Doesn't matter the period, style or genre; it either tells a good story or it doesn't.  

Batons:

Even before I opened the link I knew it was going to be of Gergiev and his infamous toothpick.  First of all, imo, and that of many many musicians, Gergiev is one of the greatest musicians on the planet; he is amazing.  I had the great pleasure of playing under him once performing Mussorgsky's "Pictures At An Exibition" and I can comfortably say it was possibly my most memorable musical experience ever.  The job of a conductor is far more than the waving of a baton.  Much of the work leading up to the performance happens in rehearsal and even conductors with less than ideal conducting technique can conduct a fabulous performance because of a particular talent in conveying to musicians his/her musical vision for a piece of music and this sometimes has little to do with the waving of the stick.  Some conductors don't use a baton at all and in the performance that I mentioned Gergiev didn't use a baton.  He is known to players as having a very idiosyncratic conducting technique; especially this little "shake" that he makes with his hand which can be maddening since it can give "false cues".  You mentioned "magic":

Some conductors simply have "the magic" to convey what they want from players and are able to establish a musical performance-relationship in a way that is hard to describe; sometimes they can put their arms down altogether and still convey a great sense of pulse with their bodies; the magic.  The toothpick:

Think about it for a moment.  If a player sees a conducting pattern that is, say, three feet wide in any direction, vs one which is only a couple of inches wide (toothpick), with which is the "margin for error" greater?  A smaller beat pattern is more concise, lets the player see exactly where the beat is and creates a potentially more concentrated rhythmic pulse; which is what the opening of Bolero is all about.  I will admit that his use of the toothpick is a bit extreme, but I believe that is his reasoning.  Of course, with certain music ("Pictures") or parts of a certain piece, the toothpick won't work; notice how in Bolero, as the piece progresses, his pattern gets larger and the fact that he is still holding the toothpick is pretty irrelevant.

Frogman, I've liked music all my life. When I became interested in audio equipment, I subscribed to "Stereo Review"; Julian Hirsch of "Hirsch-Houck Laboratories" was my guru, and his philosophy was; "if you can't measure it, it ain't worth talking about"; consequently I purchased my audio equipment based on specifications.

When my Phase Linear 4000 went on the blink, I decided to find out what those crazy people called "audiophiles" who paid crazy money for stereo equipment were all about. That's when I visited my first "High end salon", and I was blown away; this thing called a CJ PV 10 was a little pre-amp that sounded better than anything I had heard before, although it's specs were not as good as my Phase Linear.

After that, I discovered I could hear beyond what any test equipment could measure; that's when I became what I call a "subjectivist". Now, I base everything on my "subjective" senses, and it works for me, and I'll give you an example of how this worked just yesterday.

As you know, reel to reel tape decks are very complex pieces of equipment. My "pitch control" quit functioning properly and needed adjusting. The instructions in the repair manual were straight forward and simple, except for one thing; I didn't have the repair equipment.

(1) connect a digital counter to the output jack.
(2) Set tape speed selector to 38cm/s
(3) Set pitch control to on in center position.
(4) Playback test tape QZZOW380EX (no problem if I had one)
(5) Read the output frequency, and confirm that output frequency is 3000hz
(6) If it is not 3000hz, adjust VR904 so that it becomes 3000HZ
(7) After adjustment described above, turning pitch control to maximum and minimum position, confirm that more than 3180 hz is obtained at its maximum position,and less than 2820hz at its minimum position.

As easy as falling off a log, providing you have the test equipment.

I put on a Nina Simone tape, plugged my earphones in, and proceeded to adjust VR 904. This was a live recording, and when I could hear the tinkle of ice cubs in the background, I knew I had it right.

I look and see with my third eye, and listen with my inner ear; my "subjective" senses do the measuring, and that's how I function.


Enjoy the music.