Your Side by Side Experience With Best Vintage vs Newer Expensive Hi Tech Speakers


Has anyone here ever done a side by side comparison between Tannoy Autograph, Bozak Concert Hall Grand, EV Patrician, Jensen Imperial Triaxial, Goodmans, Stentorian, Western Electric, Altec A4, Jbl Everest/Hartsfield/Summit/Paragon/4435, Tannoy Westminsters, Klipschorns vs the Hundreds of Thousand even Million Dollar speakers of today like Totems, Sonus Farber, BW, Cabasse, Wilsons, Dmt, Infinity, Polk ...etc
vinny55

Thanks Trelja! I love what I do!

This is a cool paragraph

"Audiophiles fool themselves believing tone controls no longer exist in this hobby. Consider the countless dollars and discussion threads spent on the hopes for and sonic effect of changing whatever (loudspeaker, power / pre amplifier, tube buffer, CD player, turntable, cartridge) component, resistor / capacitor, vacuum tube, cable, isolation device, tweak, etc. in the quest toward the ultimate destination"

Text book HEA audiophiles can be a weird bunch at times.

a pleasure meeting you

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

Post removed 

Hi Vinny

Today I was at our speaker shop, and we were having the new guys learn about tuning the speakers. Our speaker designs are free resonant and tunable. We have there in the shop identical speakers for the guys to do tapping tests on. Identical except for the mid dividing board that is. The one you can take a set of drumsticks and play it going up and down the scale in-tune. The other one you start to play it and you can hear that the pitch is off and out of tune. Same exact speakers with one board 7"x9" making the difference. Folks who visit are always shocked. I don’t build speakers like typical HEA speakers. Mine are made from instrument wood on the front baffle, .3" thick (yes only .3" thick, just over 1/4"). The rest (not including the base) is made from our own soft pulp compressed board 3/8" thick. On the FS (floorstanding) models there is a mass loading chamber on the bottom. And of course there is a Tuning Bar & Bolts so the user can change the tone.

My speakers are specifically designed to work like any acoustical instrument. What makes an acoustical instrument work? They are made to use the room as part of their components. Take any acoustical instrument and tune it in a room. Now take that instrument into another room. What do you notice? The instrument has gone out of tune slightly or major. Rooms and instruments work as one, so do speakers and rooms. You can put the best speaker in the world in a room and if it doesn’t tune to that room it will sound out of tone, timbre, pitch or phase. Audiophiles experience this all the time and can’t figure out what is wrong. I tell them "it’s not the speaker". I go through this every day somewhere in the world. Someone buys this raved about speaker and it sound horrible in their room. Or the other thing I get a lot is, someone moves and when they setup their new room it doesn’t sound as good as their old space.

This is why I’m thinking about starting some threads here about tuning. It will really help folks understand some things that maybe they haven’t done or even heard of before. And so yes, Vinny you are right on the money. It’s all about tuning.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

PS: here’s how fine tuned you can design a speaker. Do you guys know how many parts I have in my crossover? "1" it’s a ERO cap, and that’s it. Do you know why? Because I have done what Vinny says, I tune my drivers to my cabinet, and to whatever room they get used in.

Even though I had a good bit of loudspeaker building experience with my own / friends’ projects as well as my involvement with Fried, until I began building amplifiers, I didn’t understand the importance resistors play in the sonic presentation.

At one point, I had four amplifiers in front of me, three of which using the same circuitry, differing only only in their passive components, and two of which only in their resistors. The first was a classic Dynaco ST70 using the carbon composition resistors of the day. The second using carbon film resistors and modern capacitors, with the third identical apart from its metal film resistors. I built both of these amplifiers in the same time period. The fourth amplifier was a Dynaco ST80, produced in Japan, built to correct all the supposed flaws in the original; increased power supply capacity, Mullard long-tail pair (used by 99% of today’s push-pull tube amps and most of the Dynaco replacement / upgrade boards) driver stage, LED bias indicators, and (ironically) a triode / ultralinear switch.

The resistors themselves profoundly influenced the sound.

The original Dynaco had that amber colored, overly warm, lush sound normally equated with vintage gear. The same amplifier circuit with metal film resistors not only sounded like a modern amplifier with its clarity, neutrality, and openness, it possessed a level of both speed and liquidity most products with another zero or two in their price tags hope for.

Despite the marketing claims amplifier manufacturers have used over the past few decades about their innovations and ingenuity, when it comes to tube amplifiers, the circuits remain the same as those used in the 1950s. THE single most meaningful difference between a vintage and modern tube amplifier is the metal film resistors, and to a much lesser extent, capacitors.

The guitar industry knows this all too well. The demand for the vintage sound by the customers has led to both the much higher collectibility and pricing of the original amplifiers, the reintroduction of those same products, at a much higher price point to boot, and the tuners in every town folks bring their amps in to up their tone. Number one way to get that vintage tone, carbon composition resistors.

And if anyone cared...the Dynaco with the carbon film resistors sounded less than noteworthy, possessing neither the charm some treasure vintage products for, nor the modern sound that I prefer. The ST80 proved to me how the simplicity of the concertina phase splitter produces a special sound the vast majority of today’s push-pull tube amplifiers simply do not. With few exceptions, high-end audio amplifier designers have rejected this topology over the years using the argument of lacking the gain the long-tail pair produces. However, since many here like to quote Nelson Pass these days in regard to our components producing more gain than we can make use of, I’m now going to begin claiming this an advantage for the concertina. And for what it’s worth, though the sound of the ST80 fell far short of the original as all of these "improved designs" do in my experience, I did appreciate the triode switch even if it conflicts with Dynaco’s actual raison d’etre of ultralinear operation
Thanks @michaelgreenaudio your bang on and doing a great service. You think outside the box and have a wide viewing audio mind. Thanks for instructing us the importance of audio tuning. I had read about rudimentary concept in an old scott 1950s brochure about tuning your speakers or was it out of phase. I forget now lol. Michael Your taking it to a higher level. Kudos.

Thank you  @trelja  i had read same thing recently on old thread in another audio site. Scott tube integrated owners wondered why their equipment didnt sound warm after servicing or didnt sound great after purchasing it used. Because their tech had changed the original resistors. I did not know this prior to few days ago. Its such an important detail that the normal audio hobbyist probably doesnt know including myself until few days ago. Maybe technicians are unaware.