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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
jf47t
116 posts
 

Variable Tuning!

I’ve spent 3 days listening to Hindu Love Gods with MG himself as my personal DJ I could easily go another week. Learning how much is on a recording is an event you must experience to believe. I didn’t know when we started that this would end up being such a profound trip. The difference between having a listen with Michael and tuning with Michael is a hobby changer. He has shown me why and how all systems play the same recording differently. To be absolutely fair when MG started this thread he didn’t used one of his tricked out components. He ordered a used vintage Pioneer receiver unpacked it in front of me and plugged it in. It’s that same Pioneer that has gone from rags to riches right before my eyes. MG took his time and converted this amp into a variable music machine that now can easily rival the very best of the best.

This latest setup MG created one of his favorite soundstages and had me listen to Hindu Love Gods. It was quite different from his other sounds. This recording now sounds like it was done inside of a recording studio and mixer with the engineer wearing headphones to do the mixing. That is the headphone type of stage only bigger and being able to have that whole body vibrating feeling. The stage is now doubled in size over what it was and I can see all the specifics of the instruments and players. On track two I can see exactly where the drumstick is hitting the drum and how the drummer uses the striking differently for tone changing. You can hear and see when he is hitting the drum dead center and see and hear the position of the stick change as he goes slightly off center. In other words I’m able to see the drum stay still with me seeing the drum shell stationary and the stick move and tone change amazing. Watching the snare drum action alone is worth the price of admission.

glupson
7,842 posts
 
mitch2,

Now, that was a funny surprise.
prof
3,473 posts
 
glupson,

Good luck with getting any straight answers.

But your persistence is admirable...for much of the thread I felt like Sisyphus but now you are taking your turn at the rock. :-)

glupson
7,842 posts
 
jf47t,

"I can see exactly where the drumstick is hitting the drum and how the drummer uses the striking differently for tone changing."
It would be interesting to talk to the drummer, if he still remembers it, and hear if all of that actually took place. Can it be that, by changing whatever is being tuned/tweaked the nature of what happened during the recording gets misrepresented? Nothing wrong with that as long as the listener likes it, but it may not be just plucking hidden information from the recording. It may be skewing recording into what it never was to be.

"...and converted this amp into a variable music machine that now can easily rival the very best of the best."
What does conversion include? How was it converted? Changed parts?
glupson
7,842 posts
 
prof,

I learned from observing you. I do not expect straight answers from anyone. If they come, I will happily consider them and see what I can learn from them. If they don't, I have lived without them until now quite fine so I will not miss them at all.

I do have fun reading posts marginally related to the thread. There are things to consider. I bought that Hindu Love Gods CD based on jf47ts recommendation/description and I have not regretted it. In fact, I bought another one for a friend of mine and he likes it, too. However, I do think that some of the despicably-constructed posts should be highlighted and confronted. I cannot care less if someone, I forgot who it was, is ashamed to be associated with you and me without really ever meeting us, but some of the most recent posts crossed the line of any tolerance.
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