2. amps-preamps
  3. 138007-18279

Tube Line Stage Preamp to Drive Class D Amp

I’m super curious about moving around the configuration of my system.

In the winter, I run a Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP integrated. In the summer/fall, I was switching in a solid state integrated--a Creek Evolution 100A. I moved recently and now have a dedicated music room. So the Creek went to the living room and, since it’s still summer--effectively--I needed a SS/cooler amp to run the third floor music room. Enter the NAD M22.

I’m enjoying the NAD M22, and far more so than a Peachtree Nova 300, which I ultimately sold because I felt the Creek Evolution 100A sounded more musical throughout the whole sound spectrum. Right now, the NAD is fed by an NAD M51 DAC. That means my Manley Chinook phono and vinyl collection sit abandoned.

I’m curious to what things would sound like if I moved to a tube line stage preamplifier to feed the NAD M22.

I love the Primaluna integrated and would hate to part with it. But I can’t stop thinking about whether a proper tube preamp might be great with the M22. I could still tube roll on the preamp.

Would this potentially be the best of both worlds? Would it be trick to match up tube preamp output specs to the NAD M22?

Finally, what is it that I like about the NAD v. the Primaluna setup? The NAD is fast and maybe slightly leaner with less glow or ethereal quality. But it has great control and sounds very accurate and there's a clarity into the music that is just as intoxicating as all tubes.

I should probably stay put.  If I do stay put that means no vinyl in the summer in this room because I have nothing to hook the Manley Chinook too.  I can survive, but analog is the drug of choice. 

Curiosity killed the cat though and, if I can confess, I researched tube line stages from Primaluna to Conrad Johnson to Luxman, to Vincent, and on and on.

And then part of me thinks to keep summer and winter systems and just add in a really nice REL subwoofer like a S/3 or S/5 to open up the whole picture.

Forgive me for I love this stuff. 

PS I don’t believe the Primaluna integrated allows me to use it just as a preamp. Too bad...I have a ton of preamp tubs that wI’d love to hear with the NAD M22.

PPS No one seems to talk about it here but the Creek Evolution 100A is Class G--25 watts in pure Class A then the switching kicks in to get you north of 100 watts. It’s a super cool idea and I doubt I’ll sell that little British gem.
128x128jbhiller
jackd
1,068 posts
 
NCore amps work well with tube preamps at least the NC500 based ones do so the NC400 ones should be no different.  There is a remote controlled Odyssey Candela for sale on Audio Circle for $950.  Quality preamp for a good price. 

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=159242.0
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
jbhiller
Tube Line Stage Preamp to Drive Class D Amp

The Nad M22 input impedance is a feeble 17kohms as are most Class-D's, be careful with tube preamps as most like much higher than that, tube preamps that have paralleled cathode follower output stages "maybe" low enough in output impedance to do the job, but many tube lovers don’t like the sound of them (to close to solid state is the complaint) but then muso’s do like them??
If you feel you need a bit of tube euphonics, to be safe stick with a solid state preamp that has tube colouration’s for a reputation.

Or you could go with the Schiit Freya it has tube solid state or passive all switchable on the fly, the very best volume control and has multiple input outputs xlr and se. And it’s all remote controlled. Also you can send it back if not happy. the tube stage seems to be a paralleled cathode follower as it’s only 210ohm output impedance.
http://www.schiit.com/products/freya

Cheers George
jackd
1,068 posts
 
George

Have you actually seen or heard a Freya much less owned one.  If not how do you know what it is capable of other than reading spec sheets.
ghosthouse's avatar
ghosthouse
4,307 posts
 
JB - fwiw I’m using a Schiit Freya pre with a Merrill Audio Class D power amp (Taranis). Very happy with the resulting sound. I use balanced ICs to the Taranis. Early on, I listened mostly to the Freya’s JFET buffer mode. More recently, I got some very nice sounding NOS 6SN7s and now listen in tube mode pretty much 100% of the time. Tubes seems to provide a deeper soundstage and (richer harmonics?) than either "passive" mode.

George is right to caution about impedance matching. I followed a generally recognized rule of thumb that the load impedance of the amp should be at least 10x (some say 20x) the output impedance of the preamp.

With the Freya, output impedances for...
JFET (SE) mode = 75 ohms
JFET (Bal) = 600
Tubes = 210

Comparing these values to the 17000 ohm input impedance that George cites for the NADM22, I think the Freya would be "compatible".

I had been using 78wpc EL34 tube mono blocks and a different tube preamp before the Taranis. I don’t find myself missing tube amplification. I also have a Hegel H200 and a First Watt F7 that I switch off to periodically from the Taranis; so there is some on-going basis for comparison. They all have their virtues. The Taranis gives a good accounting of itself in that company. I am greatly enjoying music from the Taranis driving Totem Forest speakers.

Hope this is of some use.

jbhiller's avatar
jbhiller OP
1,404 posts
 
Thank you!!

George that’s a great idea!  I could spend little, keep both summer and winter systems and still have tubes on the line stage with the muscle of the NAD.  

Ghostbouse, I really appreciate your anecdotal advice. I think this route is a reasonable way to go. And, I need a remote.  Getting up to adjust volume is not ideal. 

Its good old to hear you like this combo with Totem Forests. I’m very familiar with them. It’s also good to hear you aren’t missing the tube power amps. 

I welcome ofger ideas too! 
More to discover