Who needs a Preamp??


Seriously, if your cd/dvd player has volume control as my Oppo does.
and you own a phonostage with volume as my PS audio does,  then
you your issues are:
-how to power a sub
-how to listen to tv thru your system

Who believes that a preamp Improves sound??


gadios
A high-end preamp definitely sounds better than a digital source alone straight in to the amp in my system. I’m sure someone like almarg can explain why from an electrical standpoint this is often the case.
I have never been able to get a passive preamp or a direct connection to sound right. It seems like the drive of a good active preamp always improves the sound of my systems. 

@jaybe thanks for the mention.

This question has been discussed in a number of prior threads, of course. My perception has been that among those who have reported directly performing preamp/no preamp comparisons a significant (but not overwhelming) majority prefer having a preamp in the chain.

I would expect the reasons for that to vary among many possible factors. I don’t doubt that in many cases the reason for preferring a preamp is what George referred to, namely that colorations and inaccuracies in the preamp are subjectively pleasing, and/or are complementary to those of the source component, and/or mask colorations of the source component. But I would expect other factors to be at play in many cases, depending on the specific equipment. Such as better sonics from the source component when its volume control is set at max than when it is attenuating the signal; differences in ground loop effects (which can affect low level high frequency noise and consequently “background blackness,” in addition to potentially causing hum), differences in impedance relationships; differences in sensitivity to cable effects, especially if a long run to the power amp(s) is necessary; and perhaps in some cases what Paul McGowan of PS Audio stated a few years ago in one of his blog posts:

My adamant stance against inserting a preamp between a high quality DAC like DirectStream and the power amplifier should be no surprise to readers of this blog. As well, my subsequent turn around embracing the exact opposite should lift no eyebrows either. But why would inserting an extra piece of gear in the signal path sound better than a more direct approach? How could this make sense?

... For a long time I found that DACs with no-loss digital volume controls sounded better, cleaner, livelier, directly into the power amplifier. Whenever I inserted a preamplifier it sounded different–but not better. That is until I tried a different preamp. My first revelation happened with the stunning Aesthetix Calypso preamplifier. Placed between the DAC and power amplifier, music took on a life and dimensionality that took all of 10 seconds to find it was better–not just different.

... I had written earlier that it’s likely I am asking the wrong question. How could adding more to the signal path make the system sound better, not worse? It turns out the logic is correct: it cannot. So why does sometimes adding a preamp between a DAC and power amp help the system sound better?

Because it’s helping the DAC not sound worse. And that bit of logic is key to answering the question....

... Imagine we have a DAC with an identical output circuit to that of a preamplifier. How would this respond driving a power amplifier directly? Theoretically as well as a preamp and, perhaps, better because we haven’t another component in the mix. But here’s something you may not have thought about.

DACs are significantly more sensitive to power supply changes and noises than preamps. When an output stage struggles to drive a complex load, it is the power supply feeding its output stage that sees these changes. If this occurs in a preamp, it has little effect. But that same situation, when applied to a DAC, has very different results indeed. Small changes in power supplies have big impacts on sound quality–especially jitter.

So this is one reason, and there are more, some preamps can help a DAC.

Generally speaking, IMO the burden of proof should always be on adding anything to the signal path that is not an obvious necessity. But while adding a preamp in the kind of situation the OP describes is not an obvious necessity, due to the variety of factors that may be involved the only way to know for sure in a specific system is to try it both ways.

Regards,

--Al


The reason an active line section can sound better than a passive has a lot to do with interconnect cables. Passive controls have poor output impedance- usually quite high, which allows the interconnect cable to do its worst mathematically speaking- and this is audible as others on this thread have already pointed out.


If the line section has a low output impedance it can swamp the characteristics of the cable- in other words its output impedance dominates that math I mentioned. So less effect. If you've ever had to audition interconnect cables to pick the one that sounded right then you know exactly what I'm talking about.


Now this problem was identified and dealt with by the recording industry decades ago and resulted in what we know as the balanced line standard (AES48). If you equipment conforms to this standard you'll find very little difference between cables. Most high end audio products do not, but if you have one that does, interceding it between your sources and amps can easily increase transparency if you keep the connections to your sources short. 

Now of course such a line section could be built into a DAC- but then you have the issue of if you ever want to improve the DAC or the line section, you have to replace both (and its often not a good idea to have a DAC and line section run off of the same power supply). DACs are notorious for going out of date; this is a very real issue.
Seriously, if you’ve already set your reference point so low, you are probably seeing the expense of adding a decent preamp, power cord etc. a waste of money, right?

The VC in players or DAC are purpose built. IMHO, they can never equal or replace the SQ upgrade comes from a high quality preamp not to mention the increased functionality.

Buy a cheap pre and it will degrade or yield no improvement in the SQ vs going direct. Buy a high quality preamp and you will never go back to serviceable VC in OPPO or PS Audio.