Subwoofer insight.

@soundermn 
I bin doin' dis a long time.
I got da tools.
Tryin' to set up subs w ½-arsed controls is a YUGE PITA.

IME, high level inputs w a toob amp is a bad idea. Transformers are current devices and many speaker impedances are all over the map in the low end, causing similar input vagaries to the sub. Ergo, the sub is mimicking the eff'd up main low end. BTDT.

Roll the low end out of the mains. If they were any good in the bottom, subs would not even be an issue.

My tongue is about an inch short from all the times I've bitten it when subjected to systems with ½-arsed subs.

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As a composer friend once said on hearing my phase correct sub:

Those little speakers aren't putting out all that gorgeous bass?!?!?!?!?

- No, there's a subwoofer at the end of the sofa. -

Every other subwoofer I've ever heard just boomed!

- Almost...
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Others on later phase correct systems:
- Joe Pass is sitting right there!
- Man, your system is so precise!
- etc.

 

I’m so sorry ieales but I don’t understand what you are trying to say. Read it multiple times but still don’t get it. Any chance you could say it without the subliminal messaging?

He is trying to say the REL subs are junk and that I have them hooked up wrong, even though I did it exactly as shown by the designer.   Obviously he knows way more than the engineers at REL.    You can tell by his mastery of language. 
https://rel.net/how-to-connect-your-rel-to-a-tube-amplifier/

https://relsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005872647-Stereo-RELs-Tuning-Guide

It is common for vacuum tube power amplifiers to have three sets of output connections. Since the REL high level connections draws no current, it is best to use it with taps intended for driving higher impedances such as 8, or even 16 ohms.

We suggest starting by connecting the RED and YELLOW “hot” wires of the REL high level cable to the 8 ohm speaker outputs. This is recommended even if your main speakers are connected to 4 ohm (or 2 ohm) outputs because the gain of RELs is designed to follow the longstanding industry practice of using 8 ohm as a standard. Selecting a lower impedance for the REL connection will result in MUCH lower output. 

Hi Ric,

I believe what Mr. ieales is trying to tell you is that REL subs are more difficult to integrate into a system than other brands of subs because they do not have variable phase adjustability. Phase in this case basically means that the output signal of the sub starts (or maybe I should say arrives at the listening position) at the exact same time as the output signal of the other speakers (including any other subs) in the system. In a single box speaker this is all controlled by the internal crossover. With a sub woofer and satellite speaker setup that crossover does not exist so that phase/time relationship between the sub and the main needs to be controlled in a different manner. One of the easiest and probably most economical ways to achieve this is by adding variable phase control to the sub amplifier.

REL's phase control allows you to vary the start of the signal in two increments where as other manufactures allow you to vary the start of the signal in as many as 360 increments.  It's kind of like using a ruler with markings at 0", 6" and 12" rather than using one that breaks down each inch into 1/32" segments.

Why REL does not include variable phase adjustability with their subs I do not know, I have a couple of guesses, but ultimately I do not know. OTOH there are a lot of very satisfied REL owners. So what does that mean? Who knows and for that matter who cares. I do know that you don't always need to measure to 1/32" to get the job done but if you can usually the end result will be better.

The bottom line is, do you like what you are hearing? If you do, that is all that matters.

MiniDSP could be employed to integrate the subs if one wanted to get more involved than a simple setup. https://www.minidsp.com/