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Tweaks - An Honest Discussion

I know there is a lot of talk about performance tweaks in this forum and the value that can be realized.  I've started this thread because it seems that folks tend towards believing they are either the silver bullet to sonic bliss or conversely simply snake oil.  I believe tweaks are somewhere in between and in most cases, worth about what you pay for (crazy  I know).

I'm open minded to tweaks and have employed many in my system over the years including isolation, fuses, footers, HFTs, cabling, cable risers and attempts at reducing RFI (among others).  While I believe that many of these tweaks incrementally helped me get better performance out of my system I never for a second found any tweak make a transformational difference the way that a significantly upgraded piece of gear brings to the table.  I think many of us have been quite happy with our systems over the years but that doesn't mean implementing a tweak can possibly compete with the benefit of replacing a piece of gear that is well matched to elevate your system. Just because you're happy with your setup doesn't mean a major gear change can't really elevate the experience - surely well beyond any form of tweakery.  

As an example, I've been very happy with a Hana ML cart and how it's performed in my system.  I recently decided to acquire a Lyra Kleos cart - for a $2K increase the change has been transformational in terms of dynamic range and ability to convey detail and imaging.  There has never been a dot I've placed on a wall, carbon platform placed under gear, or RFI shielding device I've ever used that could possibly come close to this equipment upgrade.  Same goes for upgrades to my system over the years in terms of amps, pre's, and speakers.  For anyone to suggest that through tweaks alone you can elevate your system to a level that only gear changes can achieve simply falls flat in my experience.  Some may be shocked to hear that most of the time a $200 tweak truly only gets you about $200 worth of improvement (if any) and not the equivalent of a $5000 gear upgrade. I know there is a certain allure that by simply being smart and applying elbow grease that we can extend the sonic limits of our system well beyond it's design, parts, and capabilities but that's just not true IMO.

What's your experience been?   
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millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Its been a while, but I still recall how it was back when I was as smug in my ignorance as tuberist and tvad. One of the first tweaks I tried that began to change my mind was a phone book under the CDP. Which is a pretty poor tweak and barely audible. But the thing of it is, it shouldn't be audible at all! Not even a little! But it is.

So I tried a whole bunch more things. But here's the thing. Its like, when you are learning to drive a car one of the interesting things you learn is there is an optimal tire pressure. Way too high and the car responds super fast but skitters and slides with little traction. Way too low and the car responds slow but sticks with lots of traction. In between is a very tiny little zone of only one or two psi where both responsiveness and traction are optimized. 

You tell this to the average person they look at you like, well like you guys who can't hear are looking at me right now. Only maybe not as bad since they just can't drive while you can't hear or drive. But whatever. Point is these things do indeed matter, and work, and after a while you don't even need anyone to tell you, you actually know just by looking at the car if its a bit over or under inflated, and by driving it know if it needs a little more or less air. 

So back to tweaks. Some of them work great. Some are crap. My all time overpriced tweak is the Shakti Stone. But that's only because in spite of the smugly ignorant superiority complex guys opinion I have indeed found the tweak I wouldn't try. Its all of them. I only try them after multiple proven good listeners have established enough consistently good results to make me feel reasonably confident in doing so.

Why? How do you guys do it? 
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
"Apparently one of the great things about being a tweak guru is being able to extract thousands of dollars of better performance from a piece of gear that the designer/manufacturer should have included for mere pennies of incremental cost. That makes the tweak guru orders of magnitude smarter and of more value to the audio community than a gear designer/manufacturer."

Its not like that at all. The flaw in the logic is so glaring I need to stop and apply SPF 60. And sunglasses. There now. That's better.

Manufacturers design to a price point. Tweakers don't. Got it? No? Not surprised. Let me explain.

When a tweaker puts a set of $60 Cones under a $500 component, or swaps out a $20 cap, or $10 diode, or whatever, that's it as far as the tweaker is concerned. For a manufacturer to do that, wholesale cost $60 becomes $600 at retail, now its an $1100 component. There's just no way. 

If you don't understand that then you don't understand economics- not even the niche segment of economics that makes actual sense.

Now I if I wanted to be snarky I would say something like, "Apparently one of the greatest things about ignorance is you can make fun of just about anything, for any reason, or none at all! You don't need to know anything when you're ignorant. In fact its an advantage! It makes the ignorant orders of magnitude smarter than the informed!"

Yeah. Nailed it. Again.
three_easy_payments's avatar
three_easy_payments OP
2,097 posts
 
@millercarbon

If I had not tried so many tweaks with an open mind, while also admittedly realizing some gains, then sure you could call me ignorant. I'm a guy who has fully embraced tweaks and believe they have a legitimate place in enhancing our audio experience.  My point is that the value of these tweaks generally match about what you paid for them. A $60 tweak is not going to yield thousands of dollars worth of gains. I use BDR cones and I think they are a good value - at $60.  i would never pay 5x-10x that amount for what these bring to that table for instance.

To address some other comments by others, speaker placement isn't a tweak - it's using speakers correctly by experimenting with position so you get the most from them in your room. Speaker manufacturers instruct you to do exactly this.

Acoustic treatments are not tweaking your equipment, they are improving the acoustic characteristics of your room.  Room treatment is of high value and should be done first before investing heavily in audio gear and beginning to apply tweaks like footers, fuses, tape, goo from a tube, etc.  While I have heard subtle improvements by using HFTs, dollar for dollar my GIK treatments are far more effective in the same room.   
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
A trolling we will go. A Trolling we will go. Hi ho the dairy-o a trolling we will go 🕺🏻
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Speaker placement is totally a tweak. Its literally the definition of tweak!
Heck I just looked it up, so as to avoid even the slim risk of appearing ignorant, and Miriam Webster first definition of tweak "to make usually small adjustments in or to, especially fine tune." 

We all get to have our own opinions but we don't get to have our own facts. Adjusting speaker placement is tweaking. That's just a fact. 

Now it may well be that in your experience you were always able to find a component for only $60 more that sounded exactly as good as one that cost $60 less but with Cones under it. That seems about as likely as finding a definition of tweak that rules out adjustments. But let's say you did. In your experience and opinion you have found tweaks are exactly as good as .... they cost. 

Then why would you "embrace" tweaks? I mean, if in your experience and opinion tweaks are only worth exactly what they cost and no more, why would you add the complexity? Why wouldn't you just go shopping for the next component every single time you want something better?

Also curious to know, in your experience, all the tweaks you tried, they were always worth exactly what you paid? Not a one of them was worse than a component upgrade? Not a one of them was better?

Really? I mean, not even all components are equally good value. Yet you are saying tweaks always are. Worth exactly what they cost. You have to admit it does seem rather unlikely.


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