2. analog
  3. 168432-121242

The Miller Carbon Story

Had a real nice conversation this morning with Origin Live’s Mark Baker. Mark makes some of the very best turntables on the planet and I was interested to learn more. This was our first conversation and so he was interested in me as well. This reminded me of others who have asked.   

The following story is only superficially about the Miller Carbon. The larger and I would say more important subtext is you can do it too! Please dear reader note the number of times something was tried not knowing whether or not it would work. Like all things in life: The more things you try and the more effort you put into it the better you get at it.


The Miller Carbon Story

My first turntable was a Technics SL-1700 with Stanton 681-EEE. It was 1976. Still have that turntable, anyone can see it, right there on my system page.  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367. Rack on the right. Bottom shelf.  

Next, after college, came the Listening Room and with it a new turntable. This was way before the internet. All we had was Stereophile On Dead Tree. After reading all the reviews it came down to a VPI package or Basis/Graham. What to do? Cast your mind back, way back, to the primitive past. I faxed my question to Stereophile.  

Michael Fremer called me back!   

The Basis/Graham was my own decision. Fremer didn’t talk me into anything. Quite the opposite. He was a source of much useful information that helped me make up my own mind. So it was that I learned early on from Michael Fremer what it is that a reviewer really is supposed to do: provide the reader with the information they need to make their own informed decision.  

My first high end mod was to remove the cheap rubber power cord from the Basis motor and replace it with an inexpensive power cord. Cheap, but proven to be better than all the freebie PCs and I wanted to find out if it made any difference on a turntable motor.  

It did! Same exact improvements heard on the other components it had been tried on before. How or why, who knows, but I heard it. Other mods followed. Different belt materials were used. Silk, cotton, floss. Each had its own influence on the sound. Fascinating!  

This was all part of the process of investigating turntable performance in order to upgrade. Easy to read about different materials, mass, motors, bearings- but what does it all mean in the real world? This was my way of figuring it out for myself.  

Teres Audio seemed to be the value leader. A complete turntable was too expensive, but the motor could be added to the Basis with only a slight modification for the speed sensor. When this worked out extremely well it gave me the confidence to go for the platter and bearing.  

But what about the plinth? Around this time I was working with DJ Casser and his Black Diamond Racing Shelf. His Shelf material was so much more effective than acrylic, it had to make a better plinth too. After a good deal more planning a BDR Source Shelf was cut into a unique sort of egg shape. Another piece was cut 4” diameter, drilled and tapped to be used as the nut to hold the bearing. Two more pieces about 3 inches in diameter were cut and stacked to make the tone arm mount. Three Round Things with Cones were screwed into the bottom of the plinth. The Miller Carbon was born. http://www.teresaudio.com/fame/40.html



128x128millercarbon
tomwh
150 posts
 
Lewm I thought we where supposed to be going for what real music sounds like.  I have played  the trumpet  in cars,  trucks, in doors/ outdoors , hotel rooms, concert halls, even in the bath tub.  Yes each place it sounds a little different,  but it sounds like a trumpet not a digital trumpet.  Yes and a trumpet can get in your face but also be smooth like Miles.  But it does not sound electronic. 

Subjective  makes plenty  of sense if one does not care about what real acoustical  instruments  sound like and  just wants to dance  or have a good time.  People should enjoy music regardless if sounds real or not.  My subjective choice is real , I like  to hear and feel how the makers of the instruments wanted their goods to sound.

To back up Miller Carbons observation  of inexpensive  turntable getting the job done.  I was at a all tube stereo store in Phoenix  15+ years ago.  The owner had a small room with some Quad 989 in them.  Modest tube amp and Some small turntable with a grado 300.00 wood body cartridge.   Had Ben Webster on tenor playing.  It was as good as it gets.  

Enjoy the ride
Tom

millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon OP
12,531 posts
 
Yes the Blackhawk review is coming ozzy62! I was on the phone yesterday with Dave Thompson gleaning more fascinating tidbits to sprinkle on my already sparkling prose. It’s just with the Raven now the Melody needs to find a new home, and this thread is the last (for me) curtain call for the Miller Carbon, next weekend is the big Audio Extravaganza at Chez Chaz with the new... oops man that was a close one almost let the cat out of the bag! 🤣😂
dover
2,273 posts
 

@millercarbon

Great to have a thread for discussion on TT tweaks. Here are my questions and observations.

Matter of fact both the black and cocobolo platters were clearly superior. But the black was solid black like a hockey puck and cocobolo while beautiful hides the carbon fiber, they just do not look good together and so we had to pass. Lead shot spinning really looks the treat.
I cant understand why you would start with an inferior sounding platter if you are looking to build the best sounding TT you can.
This would suggest that all your subsequent  modifications and your conclusions as to their efficacy and impact on sound have been assessed with a platter that is not optimised, and could have led you to wrong conclusions.
Battery power supply. Same motor, only the power supply changes. Ability to run battery connected or disconnected from AC charger. So effect of RFI in AC is demonstrated and learned. 

Why do you conclude it is about elimination of RFI, you are comparing a mains AC to to battery supply - I would have thought the stability of the mains supply affects the sound as much as any RFI. In fact a power supply does not need to be connected to the mains to be affected by RFI.

Chris used an inverted bearing design. Ours was an early version, with a stainless steel ball bearing riding on a teflon coated brass thrust plate. 

Teflon or self lubricating polymer type materials are a cheaper alternative to a properly desgned bearing. Teflon thrustpads wear out - quite rapidly actually. Have you thought about try lignin vitae for example. I see you replaced it with silicon carbide and tungsten thrustpad. You might be interested to know the Brinkman uses a plastic thrust pad - very disappointing.

If you want to look at some of the best TT's on the planet, check out TechDas, Clearaudio, Brinkman and if you want to go cheaper, check out Kronos and VPI. 

Well the Brinkman uses a plastic bearing, the Clearaudio Statement cant hold speed accurately - some of them are not a great as you might think. There are a lot of shiny balls in audio.

One of the best ways ( and least expensive ) to improve your system as you have done is to read up, question everything and most importantly think !
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon OP
12,531 posts
 
Okay sure. But what good would reading up do if the reading up misses the point and jumps to a lot of unwarranted conclusions? I didn’t choose the inferior platter. You can’t find anything here to indicate that. Matter of fact the lead shot platter I bought was the best one available at the time. The demo with cocobolo and delrin was years later. Go ahead, search back and see where you can substantiate your pre-determined narrative. Not in anything I wrote. If you are gonna read up, read up.

Bearing, ditto. All of which is beside the point. There never was any indication this thread was about "how to do it" or "this is the best" the thread is simply a discussion of how this table came to be and got to where it is. Along the way people interested in learning can maybe learn things here and there. If they are interested in learning. Not showing off.

This is not a BSD contest. When you make your system better it does not make mine worse, and vice versa. We all can learn. We can even learn by others mistakes. One of the best ways (and least expensive) to improve your writing is to read up, question everything, and most importantly, think!
dover
2,273 posts
 
@millercarbon
 There never was any indication this thread was about "how to do it" or "this is the best" the thread is simply a discussion of how this table came to be and got to where it is. 
Apologies - didn't realise you only wanted to hear from folk who agree with everything you've done. I'll move on.
More to discover