T + A streamers. I need help.

Hey @mgrif104, 

Saw one used so decided to snap it up a few weeks back. Always had these memories of how much better some DSD files sounded with my former exaSound DAC compared to "regular" files, so was always curious to try a higher-end dedicated DSD converter again to compare to a decent PCM player in the Weiss. I am keeping the Weiss, just building a second system and the Weiss is a player so I can feed Roon to both with the K50. Wasn’t happy about going back to a USB cable, but such is life. 

PGGB IMO is definitely the way to go, here is why: HQ player is embedded in the Antipodes, and I tried it in the past (with PCM) and was underwhelmed- too fiddly and the several filters I tried were no better than Squeeze, so why pay the money for it was my decision. I recently tried HQ again to upsample to DSD on the fly after getting the DAC 200 but the Antipodes is built for sound quality, not processing power, so upsampling to DSD128 on the fly with HQ Player had the cpu at 80%, whereas when I play an upsampled DSD512 file (via Squeeze or Roon) it is at 0%.

Upsampling on the fly kind of defeats the purpose of having a low-noise streamer.

And then I tried PGGB. I heard a few DSD 512 files, my jaw dropped, and I immediately bought the license. Hearing a redbook file upsampled to DSD512 was shocking-  either with Roon or Squeeze. Makes the difference between the two softwares seem irrelevant by comparison. To confirm I am not using HQ Player at all, I am playing these DSD 512 files back with Roon or Squeeze, both work fine but Roon is pickier with some of them. I have not yet tried HQ Player as just a player option playing the DSD files- either with Roon as the server software or HQ Player as server and player software. 

I have many old CD’s here I can rip to DSD 512 (or DSD 1024), most of them cannot be bought in any hi-res format. Previously I never bothered to rip them and play them from the internal drive when streaming them sounds just as good, and even better if Qobuz had remastered it at a high res file. But now the upsampled DSD files of those CD’s sound better than the remastered streamed files. And the upsampled DSD files of the 24/192 files I purchased sound better as well, just not as big of a jump as 16/44.1 to DSD512.

The only downside is buying all the music instead of simply streaming it all via Qobuz or Tidal, and buying several TB’s of storage. 

More info is here: PGGB thread

Because numerous variables are involved with streamers, software, and hardware, I need to take a slow approach to this. You guys have opened my eyes to the various possibilities. Appreciate your time.

I get it. I first read about PGGB about 3 years ago, then it was just an idea from a couple of electrical engineer's about how to upsample PCM for the boys with the Chord Dave's, similar to Rob's M Scaler. Then it expanded to other player's like Holo's, Gustard's, and now it is available as DSD upsampling for the strong DSD player's. 

Audio nirvana in small steps, a piece at a time, over the course of many years. the journey is typically more enjoyable than the destination. 

@mclinnguy +1

Good stuff and helpful, too. Congrats on the new DAC 200.

I’ll get my 2nd system settled in about 6 weeks and will give PGGB a try. It should work well in my system with the built in NAA on my unit. I’ll save a few steps. 

Best,

Another vote for Roon. Some people claim they hear a downgrade in quality when using Roon, I have not experienced that myself. And I don't see why or how that would be the case.

The Roon team is incredibly knowledgeable and focused on delivering a pristine signal with dedicated audio gear. Meanwhile a lot of other factory playback solutions simply use existing network protocol like UPnP or DLNA. Those were never intended for high end audio so why would they sound better? I think some people are naturally inclined to assume the smoother, better looking experience must somehow come at a price. I disagree though. 

@v-fi 

This is a somewhat frustrating response. So you don’t know how or why there might be a difference and therefore dismiss the relevant experience of many others. It’s a complex area. If you’re seeking a high performance system, not exploring this seems shortsighted.

Roon is akin to Microsoft Windows which must run on a huge variety of hardware and companion software platforms. Just as windows does not perform equally well across all those platforms, so too does Roon have to address the variables of cache, processing speed, available system resources, etc.

Some streamers are designed to only work with Roon (i.e Grimm MU1 and Synergistic Research Voodoo). However, many others have native applications to handle the music library management. Those of us with such equipment have experienced a wide variety of results with Roon. And, many of that group have experienced diminishing sound quality with Roon. 

For me - I had already paid for a subscription to Roon and was using it happily. On a whim, I compared the same streamed file on Qobuz via Roon vs via Lightning DS (the native application of Auralic devices). I was disappointed in the difference. I loved pretty much everything else about Roon - particularly the interface. But it just didn’t sound as good. I am far from alone in that experience. I have since moved on from Auralic as using it to feed my T+A DAC didn’t sound nearly as good as using the streaming client built in to the unit in direct comparison.

To be fair - I haven’t tried Roon with my T+A streaming DACs. But I also know from the experience of others that it is unlikely to offer me the best sounding option. And, given the high level of performance of the T+A gear, why should we choke it?